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3GS Upgrade Madness

[fmcb723]fmcb723 (apparently) - 11:22am Jul 1, 2009 PST
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        I have had one of the most frustrating experiences dealing with Apple
and AT&T that I have had in many, many years. My wife and I have both
been AT&T customers for more than 5 years. Last year we purchased 2
3G iPhones while still maintaining our family plan for the two phones
through AT&T. We now both want to upgrade to new 3GS's. Our intent
was to give one of our 3G phones to our grown daughter who lives on
the East Coast, who also has been a long time AT&T customer.

        Using the link on the Apple iPhone site last week, it showed that my
phone was eligible for an immediate upgrade at the discounted price,
but that my wife's phone was not eligible until mid-April 2010 ---
even though they were both bought and activated on the same day. Over
the weekend I called Apple, who told me they had nothing to do with
determining eligibility and that I had to contact AT&T.

        I called AT&T and after a short conversation I was given a case
number, told that a manager would review it on Sunday or Monday, and
we would be called to confirm our eligibility to buy 2 3GS phones at
the discounted rate. Since I had not heard anything by Tuesday, I
called AT&T this evening to receive my confirmation. I was on the
phone for over 45 minutes as I spoke to three different "customer
care" representatives. No one could ever explain why we did not
receive a call back from a case manager; only that the case had been
closed because there was "no resolution under the current rules."
Only the third person I spoke to could even tell me what that meant.

        The bottom line seems to be that although we have a family plan with
two telephone lines, only the primary line that pays the larger amount
of money is eligible. Because the second line is charged a smaller
amount (by about 35%), that line cannot be upgraded for 18 months from
the original date of purchase.

        Now, here is where it really gets flaky. If I go and use the upgrade
tomorrow to get a 3GS for the primary line at the reduced price, it
"moves my wife's date up" so that she can be eligible for an upgrade
at the reduced price "maybe in November, but no later than December
2009." I asked for the formula so that I could determine what the
exact date would be, but the customer care representative said that
she couldn't say exactly when, but it would be several months sooner
than mid-April of next year. I then asked how I would know when she
was eligible and was told we would just have to keep calling back
later in the year, because "the rules change all the time!" To top it
off, I was told that these arcane rules are not AT&T's fault, but it's
all Apple's fault because these are their rules.

        I then asked if AT&T could send me these rules in writing so that I
could make sense of them. I was put on hold while the customer care
representative checked because no one had ever asked to see a copy of
the rules. When she returned several minutes later I was told that
those rules are privileged AT&T information and that customers were
not allowed to view them, but I could rest assured that she had
explained them to me verbatim from the rule book.

        As an Apple customer since 1988, and a longtime AT&T customer I can
tell you that this is a totally unsatisfactory consumer experience.
Apple says that they have nothing to do with this, because the rules
are set by AT&T. AT&T blames Apple, but then is unable to use "the
rule book" to determine a date when a second phone becomes eligible.

        Trust me, it's enough to drive us to consider dropping both AT&T and
the iPhones and going to a different phone and provider.

        If anyone can explain this "system" to me, I promise you will have my
undivided attention.

        Frank McBride
        Redondo Beach, CA

        


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fmcb723 (apparently) - Jul 3, 2009 7:26 am (#9 Total: 15)  

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Re: 3GS Upgrade Madness

Thanks, Kevin. Unfortunately, the AT&T position is that she doesn't become eligible until 16 April 2010 --- unless I upgrade now and then she "might" move into being elgible in December 2009 ("but don't quote me" as I was told by my customer care representative).

Frank

kreme (apparently) - Jul 3, 2009 7:26 am (#10 Total: 15)  

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Re: 3GS Upgrade Madness

On 1-Jul-2009, at 13:22, Frank McBride wrote:
> As an Apple customer since 1988, and a longtime AT&T customer I can
> tell you that this is a totally unsatisfactory consumer experience.
> Apple says that they have nothing to do with this, because the rules
> are set by AT&T. AT&T blames Apple, but then is unable to use "the
> rule book" to determine a date when a second phone becomes eligible.


Well, AT&T is flat out lying. Probably the person you talked to was
not lying, but was also lied to by AT&T. Apple has *nothing* to do
with determining when you can upgrade your phone or at what price any
more than Motorola controls the upgrade policy on a RAZR.

As for explaining the system it is very simple. AT&T has every
motivation to squeeze as much money as possible out of you, and they
know that since every cell phone carrier is the living embodiment of
the worst behaving companies in the world, you are unlikely to be any
happier with another carrier. Not to mention that they, despite laws
to the contrary, make it exceedingly difficult to change carriers. ALL
the companies are absolutely horrible and will flat-out lie at every
opportunity. If they don't actually lie, they go out of their way to
mislead, obfuscate, and make capricious decisions. If you talk to
three people at any cell phone carrier you are almost certain to get 3
different answers, sometimes wildly different.

John C. Welch (apparently) - Jul 6, 2009 8:55 am (#11 Total: 15)  

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Re: 3GS Upgrade Madness

On 7/3/09 11:26 AM, "fmcbroadrunner.com" <fmcbroadrunner.com> wrote:

> Thanks, Kevin. Unfortunately, the AT&T position is that she doesn't become
> eligible until 16 April 2010 --- unless I upgrade now and then she "might"
> move into being elgible in December 2009 ("but don't quote me" as I was told
> by my customer care representative).

Okay, that's not a "little" early, that's a LOT early.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com



amacbell - Jul 6, 2009 11:46 pm (#12 Total: 15)  

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Re: 3GS Upgrade Madness

It seems to me that Telco madness is almost universal across the planet! At least here in Australia ALL the telco's with 3G networks sell the iPhone, so you can go elsewhere. I have no idea however why anyone would want to be contracted to a telco for the provision of phone services. I know of no other industry where you need to prepurchase on the basis of a best guestimate of the volume of units required for the month ahead. If you guess wrong and don't use all the units you bought then you lose your money. Tough. Can you imagine the uproar that would ensue if petrol stations started selling fuel for your car 'on a plan'. You would need to prepurchase say 150 litres a month, and if you use less you still have to pay the full price. Let the delicatessen try to sell milk, or eggs, or cheese on a similar plan. Crazy. In Australia we are able to purchase the iPhone outright and unlocked and put any of the carriers SIM in it, with a prepaid top-up of the SIM each month. That way the payments can be varied to suit the usage. IMHO this is the only rational approach.

David Wilson - Jul 7, 2009 6:44 am (#13 Total: 15)  

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Re: 3GS Upgrade Madness

I blame to US laws, and Apple for making the iPhone exclusive to AT&T. It is time the US passed laws to disallow this sort of monopoly. It encourages this sort of behaviour from the networks.

Same as Australian laws, in France and Belgium Apple was not allowed to offer the iPhone to one supplier, all iPhones have to be unlocked, if you are not getting good service you just go to another network. This is how it should be in any country. Even in China you have a choice of networks, I used to live there.

kevinv (apparently) - Jul 7, 2009 11:54 am (#14 Total: 15)  

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Re: 3GS Upgrade Madness

--On July 7, 2009 7:44:45 AM -0700 David Wilson <davidmacbits.net> wrote:

> I blame to US laws, and Apple for making the iPhone exclusive to AT&T. It
> is time the US passed laws to disallow this sort of monopoly. It
> encourages this sort of behaviour from the networks.

Originally the intent of US law was to force competition by allowing users
to take their phone numbers with them. With phone number portability if you
didn't like a carrier you could switch and still retain your number when
you got a phone from them (still having to abide by any contract
cancellation fees and terms).

Now however there are 2 situations forcing vendor lock-in.

1) Technology - not all companies are using the same technology for their
wireless connections. AT&T/T-Mobile use one set of technologies (and a
different set of radio frequencies with that technology). Others use a
different technology.

2) Phones are now more than contact lists. Making a phone available to
vendors that support their technologies is a possible solution -- but you
would need a way to transfer all your "stuff" from your original phone to
the new phone since the original wouldn't work with the new carrier.

Without mandating a particular technology, or someone coming up with a
completely reprogrammable radio that could be flashed to the new vendors
standards, I don't see a solution. And I seriously doubt the US Gov't will
try to mandate a particular technology (although there is precedent with
radio & TV signals.)



tidbits996996 - Jul 13, 2009 2:39 am (#15 Total: 15)  

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Re: 3GS Upgrade Madness

As I long time customer of both AT&T and Apple, I would suggest you look at it another way.

You signed a two year agreement when you purchased a subsidized iPhone in 2008. AT&T is being generous in allowing the primary phone to be upgraded with a full year left on your contract and then allowing the second iPhone to upgrade six months short of the two year contract.

If you want to purchase phones for yourself and your wife when you want, then don't sign a two year contract and pay full price and then you will be able to upgrade anytime you would like and continue to pay the full price.

The problem is AT&T has been generous with their upgrade policy and we as consumers no longer believe two years is what we signed. If you buy your AT&T phone from WalMart and not from the AT&T store, you will be held to the FULL TWO CONTRACT. I know from experience. I suspect this may be the policy of several third party resellers of AT&T phones.

One other option, if your daughters are eligible for upgrades, have them order the new iPhone 3GS and then swap the the SIM cards and phone with you and your wife. You can reimburse them and they can use your 3G and you get to use the newer phones. I sold my 3G to my granddaughter and then used her account to purchase the new 3GS. She put her SIM card in my 3G and then I temporarily put this same SIM in the new 3GS to activate it, then put in my SIM and all is well.

This only works because your daughters are willing to pay the monthly data fee. My daughter did not call AT&T when the granddaughter first starting using my 3G and if she had not subscribed to the $30.00 per month data plan, her first bill for data would have been nearly $800.00. So be VERY careful if you insert your SIM card that is NOT subscribing to a data plan into an iPhone without letting AT&T know, it will cost you big bucks!



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