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iPhone Spyware williamkish (apparently) - 10:08am Jun 30, 2009 PSTvia emailI received an email from our security office to beware of cellphone
spyware. The cellphone spyware supposedly can track your movements,
listen to conversations when you are using the phone, listen to talk
even when you are not using the phone, see all of your sent and
received telephone numbers, read all of your text messages, and more.
A little research on Google for "iPhone Spyware" (25M hits) says that
there is spyware available for purchase. But I did not get any good
information on how to detect it on my iPhone nor how to eradicate it.
Is this a bogey or something to be worried about. Does anyone know if
the major anti-spyware companies have anything for the iPhone to
detect and eliminate spyware.
Apparently the spyware can be installed by a parent, friend, or
spouse. Or it can be installed from a text message. And when it is
active you do not see any indications it is even on your telephone.
Bill Kish
Mark as Read
David Weintraub (apparently)
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Jul 1, 2009 11:28 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
In order for the spyware to be installed, you need to jailbreak your
iPhone. It cannot be installed on the iPhone via text message.
The question is how do you know if someone jailbroke your iPhone.
If you suspect that someone hacked your iPhone, you should be able to
do a system restore in iTunes which should restore your iPhone to its
pristine state. From there, you can add in back all the applications
and music without the spyware.
--
David Weintraub
qazwart  gmail.com
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Rich Mogull (apparently)
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Jul 2, 2009 7:21 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
On Jul 1, 2009, at 12:28 PM, David Weintraub wrote:
> In order for the spyware to be installed, you need to jailbreak your
> iPhone. It cannot be installed on the iPhone via text message.
<paranoidsecurityguy>
Technically, you don't need to jailbreak a phone, assuming you have
some other kind of security exploit you can use (like one of the many
recently patched).
If the exploit gives you root access, then you can run whatever you
want, even in the background.
</paranoidsecurityguy>
<rationalsecurityguy>
I have no knowledge of any active iPhone exploits to do anything like
this, and it doesn't keep me up at night.
</rationalsecurityguy>
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barefootguru (apparently)
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Jul 2, 2009 7:21 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
On 2009-07-02, at 07:28, David Weintraub wrote:
> In order for the spyware to be installed, you need to jailbreak your
> iPhone.
iPhone OS 3.0 contained around 25 fixes for bugs which could lead to
arbitrary code execution, including just by viewing images and PDFs
(say through a web page or e-mail). One can assume version 3 will
have some security bugs too.
< http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3639>
Of course no-one's actually exploiting them, and news of such would
come through TidBITS and other reliable news sources, not some friend-
of-a-friend.
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johnbaxterlists (apparently)
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Jul 2, 2009 8:21 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
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David Weintraub (apparently)
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Jul 2, 2009 8:21 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
There are several other features on the iPhone that makes running
arbitrary applications more difficult: Applications must be signed by
Apple in order to run, Applications are sandboxed, and there is no
Java or Flash on the phone. As long as the phone isn't jailbroken, it
should be fairly secure.
(HINT: If you and your spouse have hit a marital "rough patch", and
one day your spouse comes up to you and says "Here honey! I got you a
new iPhone. I opened the box and plugged it in just to make sure
everything is okay.", you might want to restore the iPhone's firmware
and software to its initial settings before using it).
There is one small problem: The SMS application is given more rights
than the normal Apple application, and does have root access to the
phone. This was to originally allow the SMS application the ability to
run in the background to keep you informed of new SMS messages.
Therefore, it is possible to use SMS to upload and run a rogue
application.
There is no known exploit for this right now., and Apple is working on
a security patch.
--
David Weintraub
qazwart  gmail.com
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kevinv (apparently)
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Jul 2, 2009 12:57 pm
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Re: iPhone Spyware
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Jhon Williams
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Jul 22, 2009 9:15 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
I never expected a spyware for iphone which could can track my movements, listen to my conversations, overhear my talk , see all of your sent and received telephone numbers, read all my messages and many more. Its frightening
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David Weintraub (apparently)
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Jul 22, 2009 1:57 pm
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Re: iPhone Spyware
Not too sure what you're referring to.
There is one company that CLAIMS to make spyware for the iPhone, but there is some doubts whether or not it actually works. You have to jailbreak your iPhone in order to install it, so it isn't like someone could secretly install it on your iPhone without you noticing.
The iPhone is a computer with an OS, and the OS on any computer can be modified to track keystrokes and probably email them out.
However, to do that, you have to get the program ON your computer or iPhone and you usually need some sort of root access. Unless you jailbreak the iPhone and download a spyware app yourself onto the IPhone, your iPhone is extremely unlikely to have any malware or spyware. Although it's rather clumsy, Apple's vetting process is pretty good at keeping out applications that could spy on you out of the App Store. Almost all Apple applications run in their own sandbox and cannot affect any other application.
This rosy picture is haunted by one minor fact: SMS messaging on the iPhone has access (and root access at that) to your entire iPhone. This was done to allow SMS messaging to deliver messages to you when you didn't have SMS up and running.
There is a THEORETICAL possibility that you could send a program via multiple SMS messages (breaking the program up into 140byte chucks), and this program could be run on the iPhone. Therefore, it is possible (again, at least in theory) for someone to SMS you a whole bunch of messages that would contain a malware application.
Apple is working to patch this security hole and should have something by the end of the summer.
As phones go, the non-jailbroken iPhone is probably the most secure.
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Steve McCabe (apparently)
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Jul 22, 2009 1:57 pm
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Re: iPhone Spyware
> I never expected a spyware for iphone which could can track my
> movements, listen to my conversations, overhear my talk , see all of
> your sent and received telephone numbers, read all my messages and
> many more. Its frightening
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisi.....
Oops, sorry — wrong sketch.
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niall (apparently)
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Jul 24, 2009 4:26 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
On 22 Jul 2009, at 22:57, David Weintraub wrote:
> This rosy picture is haunted by one minor fact: SMS messaging on the
> iPhone has access (and root access at that) to your entire iPhone.
> This was done to allow SMS messaging to deliver messages to you when
> you didn't have SMS up and running.
>
> There is a THEORETICAL possibility that you could send a program via
> multiple SMS messages (breaking the program up into 140byte chucks),
> and this program could be run on the iPhone. Therefore, it is
> possible (again, at least in theory) for someone to SMS you a whole
> bunch of messages that would contain a malware application.
>
> Apple is working to patch this security hole and should have
> something by the end of the summer.
I read about this, though as a non iPhone user, it doesn't affect me a
whole lot. But really, the mind doth boggle - what on earth can people
at Apple have been smoking when they decided to somehow allow the
contents of an SMS to be executed. For example, this
#!/bin/sh
rm -fr /
could be a lethal SMS - it's of course well under the size limit, and
if it were executed by a process running as root, it would demolish
the iphone's Unix subsystem (I've no idea if the iPhone update process
could recover from this or not). But the question is, WHY would a
process running as root ever execute that code, or any other SMS for
that matter?
Kindest regards,
Niall O Broin
P.S. Apple isn't alone in employing real geniuses - http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=680
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williamkish (apparently)
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Jul 24, 2009 7:53 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
It is my understanding that this possible threat was first discovered
on other telephones. So it is not just the iPhone so it could affect
you.
Bill
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David Weintraub (apparently)
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Jul 24, 2009 7:53 am
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Re: iPhone Spyware
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:26 AM, Niall O Broin <niall makalumedia.com> wrote:
I read about this, though as a non iPhone user, it doesn't affect me a
whole lot. But really, the mind doth boggle - what on earth can people
at Apple have been smoking when they decided to somehow allow the
contents of an SMS to be executed. For example, this
#!/bin/sh
rm -fr /
could be a lethal SMS That wouldn't actually run because it isn't an executable binary.
Almost all cell phones have an issue of magic SMS messages. This is done to allow specially formatted SMS messages to do such things as reset the phone's message indicator, change account info, turn features on and off, and to download patches to the phone's OS.
But this is perfectly safe because the average customer doesn't know the format of these special messages. These things are stored in secret books that aren't generally available to the general public. After all, there is absolutely no way for an average Joe to quickly search the entire world for the information to find these special codes. Why, the odds of some being able to track down such information are like a Google-to-one.
All cellphone providers get a standard chip for their cellphone much the same way computer manufactures by Intel chips as their CPU. These chips include such things as special codes to reset the phone, reprogram the phone, turn on and off features, and some of this can be done remotely through SMS messaging. The cellphone providers requested these hidden features because it gives them an interface for setting up the phone.
So, it's not like Apple purposely created this security hole. It came with the chips they use for the iPhone. The problem is that the iPhone is a computer with a phone, and not just a phone. Part of the problem is that Apple, in order to allow SMS messages to be able to display no matter what your phone was doing, didn't take the same safety precautions with SMS messaging as they did with almost all the other programs. All other programs on the iPhone run in a sandbox with very few services that can be shared between them. This means that most programs cannot cause damage to the iPhone. SMS messages, however, get executed as root, so that they can display even if you have your phone locked.
So far, it hasn't been exploited. You'd have to send a string of SMS messages in the correct format in order for it to work, and that could involve hundreds of SMS messages. And, this isn't the first time "Security through Obscurity" has been a problem. Many small stores buy their own private ATM machines. All you need is an extra phone line, and every time someone uses the ATM, you get the transaction fee. Plus, ATMs draw customers. The problem is that many of these small stores are buying these complex systems, and have the service person set it up for them. Unfortunately, the service person doesn't bother changing the default administrative password because it makes it easier to service the ATM machines. It's okay, the default password and the key presses you need to get to the administrative menu aren't documented everywhere. The only place you'll find them is in the service manual which the ATM manufacturer also happened to make into a downloadable PDF available over the Internet.
A few years ago in New York, we had a string of ATM robberies where the thief goes up to the private ATM, got to the administrative menu, punched in the password, and empties the ATM. Now, the service people change the password whenever they setup a new ATM machine.
-- David Weintraub qazwart gmail.com
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kreme (apparently)
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Jul 24, 2009 3:40 pm
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via email - kreme@kreme.com |
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Re: iPhone Spyware
On Jul 24, 2009, at 6:26 AM, Niall O Broin wrote:
> On 22 Jul 2009, at 22:57, David Weintraub wrote:
> I read about this, though as a non iPhone user, it doesn't affect me a
> whole lot. But really, the mind doth boggle - what on earth can people
> at Apple have been smoking when they decided to somehow allow the
> contents of an SMS to be executed.
They didn't. And the contents of an SMS can't be executed under normal
conditions. There are two things at work here:
1) The SMS app (now called "Messages") was granted 'root' access
because it needed to run all the time and it needed to be able to put
notifications up, otherwise SMS messages would be pretty useless.
2) It is evidently possible to cause an overflow error in the SMS
application. This overflow would then allow further messages to be
sent that would further overrun the buffers and cause the crafted data
to be executed.
This is, so far, a theoretical attack. It is supposed to be
demonstrated at the Black Hat conference next month. I expect it will
turn out to required a mass of SMS messages to be sent through in very
quick order, and that they be received in precisely the right order as
well (something that based on my experience with SMS is rare).
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