Can you live just with a laptop computer?

iainboyd wrote:

> Has anyone been down this path? What decision did you make
> and why and were you pleased with your choice?
>
> And technically, any problems with things like: battery life?
> bus or processor performance? overheating?

I've used laptops exclusively for my job for about 7 years now. These
aren't Macs, but the general principle still holds.
I haven't had problems running a laptop 8 hours/day (and occasionally
24/7), but it depends on your workload. Heavy processing (CPU at 100%)
heats up my laptop (Dell D600, 4 years old now)pretty quickly to the
point where the fans get annoyingly noisy. Most of my work isn't
processor-intensive though, my CPU is at less than 10% load most of the
time.
Battery life drops to 'unusable' after 2-3 years.
I've never used a dock. When in the office, the laptop sits on a stand,
mainly to bring the screen up to the correct level. It also helps
cooling a bit.


Harro de Jong

On Sep 12, 2007, at 6:14 AM, iainboyd wrote:

> Has anyone been down this path?

Yes. Lots and lots and lots of people. And lots and lots. And some
more than that, too.

 From what I can tell, most college students these days have already
made this transition -- they already need a laptop to bring to class,
and having a second desktop back at the dorm doesn't make much sense.
I can't see most of these people switching to the "old way" of
primarily desktop usage once they leave school -- the laptops are
just so convenient, and more than powerful enough for most people's
needs with things like the Office and iLife apps.

There's very little that the desktops can do that the portables
can't. Bigger screens, sure, but the portables all have video out
ports. There are more internal expansion options on the Powermac /
Mac Pro, but most people don't bother with that to begin with.

For my family, my wife & I have laptops (PBG4/15" for her, Macbook
for me) and we have a PMG5 tower that gets shared for iPhoto, EyeTV
recording, and as a web/mail/file/print server. Most of what I'm
doing with the PMG5 would work just as well on one or two Mac Minis
(which IMO are vastly underrated computers), and if that had been
available the last time I was looking for a desktop, I would have
seriously considered it. For day to day use, the vast majority of the
time we're on the laptops, and they work great.

I get the impression that this kind of usage is becoming typical for
a lot of people.

> And technically, any problems with things like: battery life? bus
> or processor performance? overheating?

No. No, no. No.

Just calibrate the battery every now and then and try not to charge
it all the time

Take a look at http://www.apple.com/batteries/ for more detail & advice.

> Any advantage to using accessories such as Bookendz dock?

I personally don't care for the docks (or the spelling, but nevermind
that :-), but then I still have a desktop for my external drives,
printer, etc. If you're primarily going to be using the MBP tethered
to a bunch of devices at your desk, I guess it makes some sense.


--
Chris Devers

At 03:14 -0700 12/9/07, iainboyd wrote:
>Has anyone been down this path? What decision did you make and why
>and were you pleased with your choice?

For some time now I've been doing all my development work on a laptop
with external monitor. I actually use a MacBook at the moment, as I
prefer the form factor and I don't need Firewire 800 or a card slot.

In the office I have the MacBook on a stand, so that the keyboard is
at about 40 degrees, and the display is vertical. The stand is
actually a cheap plastic document stand from Office Depot - since the
MacBook has the disk slot on the side rather than the front.

It's connected up to an external keyboard and mouse and an external
display. Also to a 7-port USB hub and some chained Firewire (400)
devices.

It works really well - it's on all the time, and I've had no problems
with overheating or battery. It's just immediately ready if I do need
to take it out somewhere.

Unless you're working on extremely large projects/documents and/or do
things that would really benefit from quad processors, the new
laptops really can be your sole machine.

regards,

Paul

--
Paul Durrant, Durrant Software Limited, Reg.Co.No.: 2612332
Custom XTensions for QuarkXPress since 1991
82 Earlham Road, Norwich, Norfolk, NR2 3HA.
<http://www.durrant.co.uk/>

On 9/12/07 6:14 AM, "iainboyd" <iainmaplescombe.com> wrote:

> The laptop is better in many ways, and it really does seem that much software
> is improved on the Intel platform, but is it a workhorse?

It depends on what you are using the machine for. The towers will always be
faster (processor wise) than a laptop. If you are a heavy Photoshop, Final
Cut, audio editing kinda user, stick with the tower and the most RAM you can
afford.
--
Shawn King
Host/Executive Producer
Your Mac Life
http://www.yourmaclifeshow.com

On or about 9/12/07 3:14 AM, thus spake "iainboyd" <iainmaplescombe.com>:

> Clearly it's possible to connect an external monitor and keyboard to a laptop,
> plus the firewire cables, and even have a powered 7 port USB hub. I would only
> take it out of the house once or twice a month so it could stay connected up
> most of the time. But I have nagging doubts as to whether it's up to this sort
> of use.
>
> Has anyone been down this path? What decision did you make and why and were
> you pleased with your choice?

For a long time a Pismo was my primary desktop machine, using an external
monitor, keyboard, and mouse. To make the Pismo's own screen stand side by
side with the external monitor for effective spanning, I used a special
stand that held the Pismo vertical. There is no sense in which this machine
was "not up to this sort of use". I did major book-writing and a lot of
heavy number crunching (sound processing) on this machine, all day long,
every day, for years. m.

--
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Iain: For slightly over one year, I have used my MacBook (new in August 2006) as a desktop computer, driving a Viewsonic VA902B display, with Apple wireless keyboard and mouse, and also printing to an Epson C88 and Brother HL2040 laser printer, and occasionally scanning with an Epson Perfection 2400. Periodically, I also download pictures from my digital camera via USB (through two powered hubs), and also access two external drives via Firewire. Except for one foray to the local MacShoppe for installation of a larger hard disk, and rare turnoffs to reboot after some application has quit, it has always been "On" using external power. To date, I have had no problems related to continuous external power. The battery power indicator consistently shows about 96%. I did create a "stand" about an inch high to raise three sides of the MacBook for slightly better air circulation (no external fan). One added note: I obtained an enclosure to make use of the (removed) hard drive as an added external drive. It is always "on" and connected directly to a USB port on the MacBook (external powered hub did not work). It required a similar "stand" to raise it an inch to avoid its overheating. Such is one user's experience. Don Power

Back when there were only G4s at the top end, I found a Titanium 1Ghz
Powerbook with dock and a Village Tronic pc card for 3rd monitor to
be just fine for all my video/audio work. But the dual processing G5s
were so much faster, I found I needed one of those to take advantage
of the speed. Same today with the MacPro sytems. Sure, your MacBook
Pro is fast enough compared to the dual processing G5, but you
haven't seen what a quad core or better MacPro can do. Of course, if
you don't need that processing power (mostly 2D work, basic photo
touchup, some audio/itunes editing now and then) then a MBP can
certainly be your main tool. I basically look at what I'm doing over
all. When I do go out, I mainly need to use a browser and some light
weight computing, so I use an old g3 iBook and the only thing that's
synced is stuff already synced through .mac. Any documents I need, I
keep on a USB 4Gb flash drive so I can share between other systems.

So, my thing is ... how mobile must I be? Will I need to only sync
now and then? Then having two systems is fine. IF I'm taking all my
work on the move weekly, multiple times per week, then I'd seriously
consider using my laptop as my only or primary system. I try and
gauge my needs based on my 80% rule: if what I have works for 80% of
what I do, then that's fine. I can find a work around for the 20%.

Jeffrey
--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear
bright until you hear them speak.......

On Sep 12, 2007, at 5:14 AM, iainboyd wrote:

> Has anyone been down this path? What decision did you make and why
> and were you pleased with your choice?

My MacBook Pro is my main desktop - I have a linux box and two PCs that just
do light duty (my favorite usenet news reader is still Forte Agent, and
nothing on the Mac comes close yet, although I've been trying to live with
Hogwasher). I don't use an external monitor or keyboard (might be nice, but
my desk is really small....). I have tons of USB and Firewire stuff plugged
in - when I travel it all gets pulled and then put back when I get home.

I take it on vacation and along on business trips (its fun traveling with
two laptops, one personal an done for work! - when I had the PowerBook I
could use the same power adapter for both - wish iGo would get their tip
ready for the MacBook).

The G4, which I had for 3 years before getting the MacBook Pro, is now my
wife's desktop (keep it closed on her desk with her old PC monitor and
keyboard plugged in - makes her feel cosier) - its still working after all
these years. It also went on trips with me.

Hope that helps. Good luck and have fun! - Bob

>I'm sure everyone has debated their ideal set-up. I've had a G5
>desktop for about 3 years, but recently have also been using a
>Macbook Pro. I can't really justify having two Macs for several
>reasons: tying up capital, the extra administration and effective
>syncing being the top three.

I've used a laptop as my primary computer for years. Currently on a
2.33 GHz MacBook Pro 15-inch, and it does everything I need. I
connect it to an external keyboard and monitor at home and a similar
setup at the office. I don't bother with a dock; seems like a lot of
money for something that isn't a huge deal.

The question, of course, is what you use your computer for. Are 2-4
GB of memory enough? Are you doing a lot of motion graphics work that
would require a more beefy video card or quad processors? If not,
then a MacBook as your main machine is a good way to go.

I do have other computers: my previous PowerBook G4 Aluminum now acts
as a backup/media server, and my wife has a MacBook that I borrow for
testing occasionally.

Jeff
--
____________________________________________________________
Jeff Carlson ....................... http://jeffcarlson.com/
Never Enough Coffee Creations.......... http://necoffee.com/
Managing Editor, TidBITS........... http://www.tidbits.com/
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At 03:14 -0700 UTC, on 2007-09-12, iainboyd wrote:

[...]

> Has anyone been down this path? What decision did you make and why and were
>you pleased with your choice?

I'm still pleased, yes. A few years ago I decided to get a PB G4 as my one
and only machine. Maybe if I'd need to carry it with me daily I'd prefer two
machines, but like you I only need to a few times a month. Basically my
reason was that I needed something much more up to date than my previous
desktop and laptop, but couldn't afford to replace both. The other reason was
that I really liked the idea of just packing up my machine and have
everything available always, wherever. So I chose a, much slower, PB G4 over
a G5 tower...

I still love the fact that I can just pack up my machine and always have have
everything with me, wherever.

A nice bonus that I hadn't realised I'd get, is that a laptop is so
incredibly quiet compared to the average desktop. I absolutely love that
quiet.

> And technically, any problems with things like: battery life?

After three years, the battery only gives me some 1.5 to 2 hours. Not too
bad, I guess.

> bus or processor performance?

Less than a desktop :) Whether that matters will depend on your use.

> overheating?

No.


--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>

On 2007-09-13, at 17:14, David Ross wrote:

> Battery life is affected mostly by the number of charing cycles. So
> keep it plugged in or unplugged for longer periods. Don't do lots
> of short cycles.

No longer true since Apple switched to lithium-ion:

<http://www.apple.com/batteries/>

On Sep 13, 2007, at 1:14 AM, Neil Laubenthal wrote:

> There are multiple fairly cheap solutions . . . an external
> drive is one but what you want is one that is automatic and just
> works.

I'm using Superduper! from ShirtPocket to back up daily to an
external FW drive.

Nice features of SD!
1, The backup copy can be made bootable
2. It can update the drive selectively in a few minutes using Smart
Update,
3. Scheduling is easy
4. The contents of the directory are readable in Finder

> I've got an iCal alarm for the first of every month to remind
> us to unplug the cord and let the batter run down monthly to preserve
> battery life.

Thanks for mentioning that! I had not heard that before, but its
confirmed:
http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html

> Heat is an issue with the laptops . . .but easily solved
> with one of the many laptop stands. We've got CoolPads but there is a
> new one available now (iLap) that is metal and seems to be a better
> choice.

I use a Podium Coolpad from
http://roadtools.com

Dick

On 09/12/2007 05:14 AM, "iainboyd" <iainmaplescombe.com> wrote:

> Clearly it's possible to connect an external monitor and keyboard to a laptop,
> plus the firewire cables, and even have a powered 7 port USB hub. I would only
> take it out of the house once or twice a month so it could stay connected up
> most of the time. But I have nagging doubts as to whether it's up to this sort
> of use.

I haven't used a desktop...really much at all since 1997. Started with a
5300 with a wonky mouse button, soon went to a 3400/240 and never looked
back.

>
> Has anyone been down this path? What decision did you make and why and were
> you pleased with your choice?

Very pleased. My current rig is a MacBook Pro. It Rocks.

>
> And technically, any problems with things like: battery life? bus or processor
> performance? overheating?

When I'm on battery, I turn the backlight down to the next to lowest level.
Its a free hour! Performance is excellent. It's hot, but as long as I'm
wearing some form of pants, (Yes Chuck, I always am, stop crying :-), it's
not been a problem.


--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

>I've used a laptop as my primary computer for years. Currently on a
>2.33 GHz MacBook Pro 15-inch, and it does everything I need.

Ditto. But here's the deal; to claim that a laptop is my ONLY
computer, I need to have it replace not just a desktop computer, but
also my cell phone, ipod, PDA, and pocket camera; all pieces of gear
with varying levels of computing functionality that I have to drag
around with me... and if the Apple engineers put in just a bit more
effort in that direction, we'd have it now. Perhaps this is the
direction toward which the iPhone will evolve, but I doubt it.

As we have seen in this thread, the easy part is getting a laptop to
assume the role of a main computer. Now let's shrink it further.
Give us a dockable Mac with an Intel Duo processor and a 7"-8"
screen; twice the size of a 3.5" iPhone and half the size of a 15"
MacBook Pro.

H.

At 22:14 -0700 UTC, on 2007-09-12, Richard Rucker wrote:

[...]

> 2. I don't like the idea of having my financial and other private
> data stored on a hard drive on my laptop.

Use FileVault. Or just encrypted disk images for sensitive data.

> 3. Operating the laptop in another location without the protection
> provided by a hardware security router with NAT and SPI increases the
> exposure.

I usually have an AirPort Express with me. With that, it's easy to always be
on a subnet of your own. I actually bought it for exactly this situation. A
'wired' router could work too of course, but the Express is one of the
smallest NAT routers -- small and light enough to always carry it with you.


--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>

On 9/12/07, iainboyd <iainmaplescombe.com> wrote:
> The laptop is better in many ways, and it really does seem that much software is improved on the Intel platform, but is it a workhorse? My G5 has firewire 400 and 800 ports in use and up to 7 USB devices connected and is on (or asleep) pretty much 24/7 and, bless it, is pretty much problem free.

Really, the only performance hits you're going to see are:

Drive performance. Get a 7200 RPM drive for sure, but it will still
lag behind a 7200 RPM drive on a desktop.

Graphics: Desktops have better GPUs than laptops. If you're doing
GPU-intensive stuff (which, these days, is pretty much just 3D and
gaming), you may prefer a desktop.

RAM ceiling: Laptops hold less RAM. If they hold enough for your work,
you're good to go there. (And unless you're doing very high end
scientific visualizations, 3D work, etc., you're probably fine with
2-3 GB)

Processor speed: Laptops have slower processors, even at comparable
megaherts. Depending on what apps you use, they may or may not be
processor-bound. Encoding, rendering, major number/data crunching, are
all processor-bound. On the other hand, as fast as things are these
days, unless you're REALLY stressing the machine, you won't notice any
speed decrease.

Other down-sides:

Laptops are generally more prone to failure because you carry them around.

Also, if you lose a single component (like the LCD, or the keyboard),
you're out a computer until it gets repaired. You can't just swap out
the monitor or keyboard and get on with life.

And then there's cost. Laptop drives cost more, laptop RAM costs more,
laptops themselves cost more. So it goes.

> Has anyone been down this path? What decision did you make and why and were you pleased with your choice?

All that said, I swapped my desktop for a laptop and I'm VERY pleased.
Having just one computer is fantastic, and having it available to me
anytime, anywhere is beyond wonderful. I do not do terribly
time-sensitive RAM/proc intensive work, so any speed decrease just
means a longer coffee break.

System-uptimewise, I've had a couple failures over my five years of
laptop ownership, but I have current backups and an old G4 cube on
hand to work as a temp machine until my laptop comes back from repair.
That's been sufficient to maintain continuity of work.

> And technically, any problems with things like: battery life? bus or processor performance? overheating?

Batteries degrade fairly quickly. After a couple years, I generally
see about a 40% reduction in battery life. You fix it by buying a new
battery. At $70, that's a bitter pill to swallow, but it's worth it
for another hour or so. (Plus you can keep your old battery on hand as
an emergency spare if you need another couple hours.)

> Any advantage to using accessories such as Bookendz dock?

If you're plugging in all those external devices, I highly recommend
such a thing. It's a pain to take half an hour to plug everything back
in and power it up when you come back from the road.

--Nik

Well, in this day and age, it seems the question to ask is, "Can you live just with a desktop computer?"

I've never had a need for a laptop computer. My friends tell me how convenient it is to have a laptop because they can surf the Web anywhere; at the dinner table, in bed, outside on the patio, etc.

I just have no desire to do that. I always know where my computer is and if I need to use it, that's where I'll be and not the other way around.

Obviously, I'm becoming a minority. As laptop computers become more and more powerful, it makes me wonder if desktop computers will eventually become obsolete.

Ryoichi Morita

I think for most people desktops will become obsolete.

About a year ago when I got my dual 2.0GHz MacBook I also had a dual
2.0GHZ G5 PowerMac (tower). I was amazed to find that the MacBook
did most everything quicker than the PowerMac. I quickly sold the
G5, got a Bookendz dock for the MacBook and a 21"LCD monitor and
never looked back.

Regards,

Howard

On 13-Sep-2007, at 12:18, Roy Morita wrote:
> My friends tell me how convenient it is to have a laptop because
> they can surf the Web anywhere; at the dinner table, in bed,
> outside on the patio, etc.
>
> I just have no desire to do that. I always know where my computer
> is and if I need to use it, that's where I'll be

Here's a few examples of when a laptop at home is very very nice

Watching some movie or TV show and we see someone we recognize, but
can't place. Pause the TV, pull out the laptop and look them up.
this happens more often than you might think.

I'm looking in the fridge and I decide to cook a pot roast. I could
go look for a cookbook, or I could type in "command+space goo space
pot roast recipes return" and have a list of recipes to choose from;
many more than in even the largest cookbook.

I'm working on some web site and the 4yo wants to go play in the
backyard. I don't want him out there alone, and I have work to do.
Oh, wait, I can sit on the porch keeping an eye on him and still
work. If I don't ned a network connection, I can go to the park with
him and let him play in the sand while I finish up some CSS drop-menus.

I'm going to meet someone to show them... anything at all. I can go
meet them at an office, or at any of 8,000 coffee shops with comfy
chairs and a more relaxed atmosphere and show them on my laptop.

I have my mom staying with us for a weekend, I can give her the
laptop to use in her room and I still have my main computer to work on.

I'm laid up in bed with a cold. rather than get up and bundle myself
in front of the computer, I can leisurely, and throughout the day,
keep up on my email and maybe even get a little work done without
having to time myself or even get out of bed.

I've missed having one and am very glad to have one again, even if it
is a lame iBook G4..

--
Take my hand and I'll show you what was and will be.

I've used nothing but laptops since 2000 or so. Primarily email, MS
office type work...
--

tom coradeschi
tcoraskylands.ibmwr.org