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Preserving digital media across the ages edward - 10:10am Sep 5, 2006 PSTAt 12:28 09/02/06 -0700, johnbaxterlists  mac.com wrote: "Passive digital archiving" can't work. I agree, but ... it doesn't MATTER whether a DVD lasts in readable form for 10 years or 50 years--it will be necessary to move the data before then anyhow. I wouldn't count on anything being readable for longer than I can keep my
eye on it -- look how quickly it became difficult to read a floppy disk
(much less an 8" floppy). OTOH, the level of usage of a format, and the way it's used, do matter. And
I would not by any means bet on CDs being unreadable in 50 years, or even
DVDs. (Digital tape and disk are a different matter. Sell or discard your
tape drive, copy your tapes! Don't even THINK about them lasting ten years.) Look at CDs: the format is almost 25 years old, and the very earliest ones
manufactured are still easily readable -- not just by finding the right
player, but on any player. These of course are audio CDs. But audio CD is a
digital format, and as long as the audio CD format is widely used, data CD
readers will be around. DVDs are nearly as widely used. The number of movies commercially available
on DVD must be closing in on 100,000. (The last time I looked, Netflix
claimed to carry 65,000.) They'll be around for a while, though in their
present format perhaps not as long as CDs (see below). The key to both of these is that they are 1) widely used by non-technical
consumers, and 2) fit human scale in important ways. That second part is important. CDs are low-density by modern standards, yet
there is no move to change audio recording significantly. Why? Because the
quality of the sound is already better than most human ears can
distinguish, and the length is comfortable for humans: the length of a CD
is longer than most concerts go without an intermission. Those who sell
recordings haven't much if any motivation to sell in larger clumps, because
getting the same return would require persuading consumers to fork over
more dough at one time. In fact, since the Great Depression, I would say
there have been only three major advances in recording: LPs, tape, and CD.
Four-channel fizzled; it didn't matter to most people. Stereo exists mostly
because the record companies could do it, not because consumers clamored
for it. Those three advances addressed length, quality, and portability.
What's left to dislodge the CD? (iPod is more portable but shows little
sign of being enough of a portability advance to dislodge the CD in general) DVDs have length and portability. They don't quite have quality, and HD DVD
may replace quite a bit of the market. Will it replace regular DVD
sufficiently to make reading a regular DVD difficult? I'm a bit less
sanguine about it than about CD, but a couple of arguments say that regular
DVD will at least be readable. First, as a medium with the same physical
specs and very similar reading technology, it will be standard for HD DVD
readers to read regular DVDs as well; there just won't be any economic
incentive to remove this ability. Second, look at Betamax vs VHS ... a
great many people just don't care that much about video quality. I look
forward to HD DVD, but it may succeed mostly for the same reasons that
stereo audio recording did: it was possible, so we sold it. But I'm archiving actively. The big question is, how do I set up my
archives to survive my death? That box of photos in the garage may have
faded some, and we may have trouble identifying the subjects, but some of
those photos survived. (When my grandmother died a few years ago, we found
a basket of photos in her garage, some well over 100 years old -- older
than she was, and she was 93.) Can I endow a web site -- pay an up-front
fee to a company to preserve my web site into eternity? What will eternity
mean when the Web17.1 standards emerge a century from now? Could I
similarly endow a certain amount of storage on Amazon S3, guaranteeing the
preservation of the bits though not necessarily of the software to make
them meaningful? What *is* eternity? Edward
Art works by Melynda Reid: http://paleo.org
Mark as Read
Geoff.Odhner
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Sep 5, 2006 10:12 am
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Re: Preserving digital media across the ages
On Sep 2, 2006, at 3:28 PM, Curtis Wilcox wrote: Today's popular, documented standards like PNG and PDF probably won't be in common use for decades but there's a good chance they'll be accessible. StuffIt's compression format probably won't fare as well. Actually, PDF's a rare case, since Adobe made a long term commitment
to the government to continue supporting the format for 25 years
(though I don't remember from when). That is one of the reasons the
government accepts PDF as a format for archiving documents. But it
is the only exception I'm aware of to the normal expectation that
file formats will tend to lose support. But I suspect that OSS will tend to change that expectation, also.
As file formats become supported by open source software, especially
by widely used libraries that support many formats, it should become
less likely that old formats will be dropped. I'm not saying it
won't happen, but that it will happen less, and that the likelihood
of support remaining will increase significantly. But of course this
is just a speculation. Geoff
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avrum113
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Sep 5, 2006 10:12 am
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Digest from TidBITS Talk
At 2:00 AM -0700 9/3/06, <tidbits-talk  tidbits.com> wrote: Message #41: Re: Opening old MacWrite files Posted by: Curtis Wilcox Date: Sep 2, 2006. On 9/1/06 1:43 PM, "SteveJ1" <stevej1 mac.com> wrote: stuff snipped > This is where > the whole concept of the "paperless society" fails. I've seen "paperless office" more often than "paperless society" and most of what that refers to is the kind of stuff you don't want to preserve for the grandkids (memos, phone directories, etc.) I
I've read (and I believe) that the paperless office will arrive after
the paperless bathroom. My experience is that people will always print out various documents
- whether to peruse away from the monitor, to stash in their Pearl
Harbor file, or to protect against the failure of the back up system --
Avrum Lapin
Upland, CA
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Lewis Butler
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Sep 5, 2006 10:12 am
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Re: Preserving digital media across the ages
On 02 Sep 2006, at 13:28 , johnbaxterlists  mac.com wrote: "Active digital archiving" can work. Before the old programs and equipment goes away, you move the data to the new technology that has come in. And you keep doing that. This is, I think, the only method that really works. "Archival"
Backups are, at best, for emergency restoration of data that has been
lost during some accident or oversight, but that said, Archival
backups ARE important. Witness the current search for the original footage of the Moon landing. --
I know that you believe you understand what you think I said but I am
not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.
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avrum113
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Sep 6, 2006 10:52 am
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Digest from TidBITS Talk
But I'm archiving actively. The big question is, how do I set up my archives to survive my death? You not only have to think of physical survival but also avoidance of
deliberate destruction. Your heirs or their heirs may not have the interest in preserving
your archives especially if they move away, live in a smaller home
etc. You should think of an institutional custodian (library,
museum) that might have an interest and discuss cataloging,
preserving and endowing the archives. There are lots of things from
my grand parents era that I wish my parents had preserved and even
more things from my parents home that might be nice to refer to.
--
Avrum Lapin
Upland, CA
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yeidel
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Sep 12, 2006 2:56 pm
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Re: Preserving digital media across the ages
Fortunately, many good minds in the library community have been considering this problem in terms both of media life and of operability. Admittedly, their perspective is more institutional than "grandma's photo box", but they are laying groundwork, especially in the area of metadata. Dspace is an MIT-based open-source project to create digital repository software at an institutional level. Preservation is an important issue in the project; see their wiki.
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landon
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Sep 12, 2006 2:59 pm
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Re: Preserving digital media across the ages
I managed to come up with one way to protect some of the interests of kin not yet born. I wrote a little family history, printed it with archival ink on good, archival quality paper, bound in a CD (high grade) with it that included important family documents and photo archives, and then gave it away - not only to kin but to the three biggest genealogical libraries in the country.
Maybe some of the copies will be around for quite a while.
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TidBITS TidBITS TidBITS Talk Preserving digital media across the ages
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