Simple iPod/Auto Integration

On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 01:56:16PM -0700 or thereabouts, peter164 wrote:
> One solution Adam did not talk about is the FM modulator that plugs
> directly into the antenna jack in the back of your car stereo (OEM or
> otherwise). These are available through a number of stores and
> manufacturers.
.
.
.
<snip>

Hmmm, that excellent response could've used a few links!
(I am a big fan of crutchfield.com...)

An example of a "Wired FM Modulator" that Peter mentions above:
====
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Jo3pXaao3fc/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?I=142FMMOD01


A demonstration of how to install one:
====
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/ipod/ipod_installation.html?page=5

On Tue, Jul 18, 2006 at 01:56:16PM -0700 or thereabouts, Dave Price wrote:
> Enjoyed your comparisons, Adam. It might be more interesting to try
> mimicking Consumer Reports a bit, by including a comparison chart of
> the features and ranking them with a bar chart.


And as for Dave Price's suggestion for a CR-style comparison chart
(but no rankings, sorry...), crutchfield once again saves the day:
====
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Jo3pXaao3fc/cgi-bin/tools/digitalDriveThru/CompareMatrix.asp


HTH!
rob

On 7/18/06 1:56 PM, "ro293" wrote:
> [Yes, sorry, the TuneFlex works only with the iPod nano. I gather the bigger
> iPods are too heavy for the thin gooseneck, which is too bad. -Adam]

Actually, Ten Technology makes a similar product for full-size iPods that's
very good; we reviewed it earlier this year at Playlist:

<http://playlistmag.com/products/complete/365-detail.php>


I also sent Adam a private email about another cassette-deck option for the
nano, Belkin's TuneDeck for iPod nano:

<http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=277954>

Basically, the cassette adapter itself provides a dock for the nano. The
adapter and dock are braced with a metal plate for stability, and the dock
rotates slightly from side to side. Overall, the TuneDeck puts the nano in a
great location in most cars. And there's no cable clutter, although a
use-it-if-you-need-it car power adapter, which does have a cable, is
included.

I've been testing it for a few weeks for an upcoming review, and I like it a
lot. My only real complaint about it is that if you have a CD player located
*above* your cassette deck, you have to remove your nano from the TuneDeck
to eject/insert a CD. But in real-world use, when you're using the iPod
*instead* of CDs, this may not be a major issue. Overall, it's a great
accessory provided, as with all cassette adapters, it works with your
particular car stereo. (Cassette adapters in general are notoriously
finicky.)

My new Toyota Prius (which I was supposed to have last week, but it still hasn't arrived) will have mini-plug AUX input, although it can't control the iPod. At least I won't have to bother with a cassette adapter or FM transmitter.

At 1:56 PM -0700 2006/07/18, brians548 wrote:
>One way to integrate your iPod into your car is to buy a car to fit your
>iPod. Not cheap, but certainly simple.
>
><http://ipodincar.net/iPodnewcar/index.php>http://ipodincar.net/iPodnewcar/index.php

        We rented a Chevy Impala last week for a vacation on Cape
Cod. I was delighted to see a small 3.5mm "earphone" jack in the
dash, and note that one of the buttons was CD/AUX. I plugged a
male-mail 3.5mm cable I'd brought but not expected to be able to use,
and left the iPod in the double-wide cupholder in front of the
armrest. When we came home I brought the iPod in and charged it on
the PowerBook, and when out of the car during the day I left it in
the hollow armrest.

        The armrest also had a second lighter socket inside, which
would've been ideal for charging the iPod while the GPS was plugged
into the main charger, if I'd wanted to charge the iPod in the car.

        Amazing how a factory-standard <$5 jack improved the whole
car experience for me...


                                                Chris
--
Chris Pepper: <http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/>
Rockefeller University: <http://www.rockefeller.edu/>

David's comments highlight both some of the problems with the type of
simple devices I was reviewing and show that even the more expensive
built-in adapters aren't without their somewhat significant tradeoffs.

cheers... -Adam

--- begin forwarded text

From: "David E. Emery"
Subject: ipod/Auto (comments on H/K "Drive & Play")
Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 06:52:31 -0700

I had the original Griffin iTrip, and it died. The problem with it
was the very weak FM signal (and finding a clear channel between DC
and NJ). Then I went to a cassette adapter, which works OK in my
truck (which has a cassette deck) but not in the car, which has only a
CD player. A new iTrip (1) broke, so I got it replaced, (2) doesn't
stay on the iPod very well and takes up the connector port, so I
can't charge and play at the same time with my existing charger, and
(3) has a weak signal (but at least offers a mono option with more
range.) On our Volvo with the antenna in the back, I have to put the
Pod on the back seat to reach the antenna. (My guess is that the
Volvo's in-window defroster is blocking the signal...)

Since I've been driving back-and-forth from Northern VA to the Jersey
shore (for work...), when BestBuy offered the Harman/Kardon Drive &
Play for $50 off ($149), plus $80 installation, I "donated" one
trip's worth of mileage reimbursement for that particular piece of
sanity enhancer. (The I-95 corridor is NOT a pleasant road trip,
even without traffic...) It's connected to my (OEM) head unit
through the H/K FM adapter, which hard-wires the Drive & Play (D&P)
directly into the radio's antenna feed. I had concerns about that,
given my experience with weak FM transmitters, but that has worked
-very well-. It will get knocked out by a real radio station with a
good signal on the same frequency, but can hold its own against a
weak FM signal (where my FM transmitters would not be able to
override the same signal.) It sounds -really good- through the FM
direct connection (at least to my mediocre ears). Sound is clearly
better than the FM transmitters, even held up right next to a car's
antenna.

The little "shifty knob" doesn't have a very obvious mounting
location in my truck (2000 Nissan Frontier). It sits just behind the
cup holder, and is hard to reach if I have something like a Venti
coffee in the cup holder. But it's very easy to use, and the little
blue light looks kinda cool (in that fuzzy dice sort of way).

The display mounted very nicely on the dashboard, and does not block
driver visibility at all (a big relief). Its cord snakes through the
duct, which looks a little tacky, but since everything in the
interior is black/dark grey, it's not noticeable.

But my real comment is on the display itself. The LCD doesn't
refresh very fast, so scrolling is nowhere near as smooth and
continuous as it is on the iPod itself. Thus there's options on the
D&P for "jump size" once you start scrolling down. This sometimes
makes it very hard to locate a specific track (song/album) from a
long list. (I have a 60gb iPod mostly loaded with classical.) The
display doesn't make it easy to see the full track title, either (a
problem with my 50 or so albums of Hayden (complete symphonies,
complete string quartets, complete trios, etc) to find the right one,
since they all start with "Hayden - ..." When the song itself is
playing, the Grouping is not shown, which is a significant
disappointment.

The most annoying thing is that, when I first plug in the iPod and
turn on the truck, the D&P decides to play from "all songs"
alphabetically. Now the very first cut (in alphabetical sort order)
is fortunately a favorite, but I'm getting really tired of hearing it
each time I turn on the truck. The other thing that annoys me is
that the D&P stays on, even if I don't have the iPod plugged in. So
when I go to the store, I get to stare at the D&P's top-level menu
display. They really should have an "auto-off-if-no-iPod" mode. You
-can- turn it off manually (the same way you turn off the iPod
itself, by holding down the stop/play button on the 'shifter'), but
then there's no way (that I've found) to turn it back on, unless I
restart the truck.

I give the D&P 4 out of 5 stars, and note that the things that annoy
me could be fixed by software. Is there a way to update the D&P's
software (if not, they really blew it, as I can think of a really
easy way for them to do it...) The annoyances are just that,
annoyances.

Unfortunately, about a week after I owned it, the 'brains' failed,
and BestBuy replaced it no questions asked. When it's worked, it's
been worth every penny, and I just hope that the unit's reliability
matches its sound.

--
David Emery

--- end forwarded text

You can also read a slightly updated version of this, complete with
pictures, on Thomas's Web site:

<http://homepage.mac.com/thomasareed/iPod_mount/>

cheers... -Adam


--- begin forwarded text

From: Thomas Reed
Subject: iPod/Auto integration

Adam,

Your article on putting an iPod into a car was an interesting one. I
wanted to share with you a solution I came up with for my own iPod
Mini, which cost me all of $3 or $4, if you don't count the tape deck
adapter (which I already owned, from a previous use of a portable CD
player) and power cable.

At a hobby shop, I found a strip of sheet copper about two inches
wide and a foot long, thick enough for my purposes but not so thick
that it would be difficult to work with. I'm not a handyman, and had
never worked with metal before, but it was an easy matter to bend the
strip at about a 90 degree angle over a piece of pipe to get a nice,
gradual curve instead of an ugly crease. Next, I drilled a couple
holes and used a file to join them into a slot. Onto the end I fit
the belt clip that came with my iPod, and into the slot fits the
little tab meant to hook under your belt and ensure the clip doesn't
slip up and off. With the belt clip holding on to the end of the
strip of metal, with the tab in the hole, there was no way the iPod
was going to fall off. By itself, though, this proved to be a bit
prone to annoying rattling noises on the slightest bumps, so I
wrapped the end above the tab with some self-adhesive felt.

Mounting the thing in my minivan was the most difficult part. I
ultimately found a perch for it by removing the metal frame of the
ash tray below the tape deck, sliding the end of the strip of copper
into the space above that metal frame, and putting the frame back
in. I made sure to choose a position where one of the ash tray
mounting screws would have to go through the copper, marking the
position of the screw hole on the copper strip and drilling a hole to
pass the screw. The end result is quite secure, with the copper
acting as an arm that holds the iPod vertically with screen and
controls within easy reach and view, and only a little springiness at
the iPod end on bumpy roads (which is probably a good thing).

Anyway, the point here is that it's quite easy to make an iPod mount
with a little patience and a few dollars worth of materials, even if
you're not particularly experienced with tools. If you screw up,
you've only lost the cost of the strip of metal. It's not
wonderfully pretty, but then, neither is my van! And it's wonderful
for road trips with the kids, who are still at an age that they like
to listen to Mom and Dad's music... ;-)

-Thomas

Personal web page: <http://web.mac.com/thomasareed/>
BitJuggler Software: <http://www.bitjuggler.com/>

--- end forwarded text



--
#3 in MDJ Power 25! .. http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=08594
Also in MacTech 25! .. http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=08603
New Take Control ebooks! ........... http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/
_____________________________________________________________________
Adam C. Engst: I publish TidBITS, write books, and make sure the
acetidbits.com right people know each other in the Mac industry.
Me: http://www.tidbits.com/adam/ TidBITS: http://www.tidbits.com/

I have done a few long road trips over the past number of months and have put different solutions to the test in two different cars: my everlasting 1989 Toyota Camry and my wife's 2003 Chevy Impala. My car has a Panasonic cassette deck and CD changer and my wife's car has a factory single CD player. I tried using an iPod mini in both of these vehicles. I did not use any of the products Adam mentioned in the article (primarily since a way to mount the iPod was not an issue to me), so I thought I'd share my experiences to the discussion:

Xtreme Mac Airplay FM Transmitter

Connected via Headphone Jack and adjacent connector
Does not recharge (although dock connector is free for a dedicated charger)

This was the first solution I tried, but I found it to be a bit disappointing. On the plus side, it was small and effortless to carry and connect. It was easy to change frequencies and I did not have interference problems, but I could not get rid of a high-pitched hum, which was consistent in both cars. Luckily, it was not too loud, but to my musically-trained ears, it was annoying. It was annoying enough that I tried another solution, leaving the Airplay as a backup solution only.

Generic Cassette Adapter

Connected via Headphone Jack
Does not recharge (although dock connector is free for a dedicated charger)

Worked well in my car until such time as the cable started flaking out on me. Good audio quality, save for the background tape mechanism noise that Adam spoke of. It was a bit annoying to try and set the volume to an appropriate level on the iPod so that I would maximize signal and minimize distortion — I would almost invariably adjust two volume controls. Nevertheless, it was a much better performer than the FM Transmitter, so it became my weapon of choice. When the audio cable flaked out, I looked for a replacement.

Griffin Technology SmartDeck cassette adapter

(Note: Linked product page does not render properly in OmniWeb 5.0)
Connected via Dock Connector
Cannot recharge during use

This was a great step forward for me. I had heard of this product, and although my car was old enough that the ability to use the car's cassette controls to control the iPod was of no significant benefit, this was a really elegant solution for me. The connecting cable was much more solid, the dock connector meant that the signal was line out (eliminating the dual volume control problem mentioned earlier), and it was pretty intelligent about starting up, pausing and then un-pausing my iPod. The only minor annoyance was that when I would connect my iPod from an off state, it would start it and play the first entry on the menu (Music — rarely what I wanted to do) rather than wait for me to explicitly select something. Aside from that, I have been very pleased with this solution and Griffin's elegant touches. Alas, it only works in my car, not my wife's.

Monster Cable iCarPlay Wireless Plus for iPod FM Transmitter and Charger

Connects via Dock Connector
Integrated charger

On my most recent trip, a friend brought this product, allowing a side-by-side comparison with the Airplay. Although initially put off by the awkwardness of the cable (the tuner and controls sit between the dock connector and the power adaptor) and the UI on the FM transmitter (instructions are, thankfully, attached to the cable in a semi-permanent fashion), it clearly outperformed the Airplay. I thought that the high-pitched hum was a limitation of the technology, but the iCarPlay showed me that it wasn't. Sound was as good as I might expect on FM Radio (I could not directly compare it to the cassette sound, but I think the cassette sound was cleaner). On-the-fly charging was a bonus. We did get the occasional bit of interference, and handling the transmitter caused static, but this minor. I will consider purchasing one of these prior to my next long trip in my wife's car.

So in summary, I recommend Griffin Technology's SmartDeck if you have a cassette deck and would consider purchasing the Monster Cable iCarPlay for those times when a temporary solution was necessary.

Anthony

Anthony Reimer provides a useful review of competing Ipod/Auto Integration equipment. However, while he rates the Griffin Technolgy Smartdek Cassette Adapter very highly, this product gets mainly bad reviews in Amazon UK.

On 26 Jul 2006, at 11:43 , Anthony Reimer wrote:
> Griffin Technology SmartDeck cassette adapter
> (Note: Linked product page does not render properly in OmniWeb 5.0)

I bought one of these despite reading several complaints about it's
smart features not working in "most" cars.

I have a 1999 Ford Windstar and the Smart features work perfectly.
The iPod pauses when the car is turned off, starts up again when the
car is turned on, and it will skip forward and back tracks via either
the cassette FF/FR buttons ( a mistake since that enables the radio
at too loud volume ) or using the 'seek' buttons.

My only complaint is the volume level. On some track I have to turn
the radio's volume full blast to be able to hear, although for most
things the volume is about 50-60% (still far louder than the radio
would be). I suspect this is a iPod issue however, as I have similar
problems with my iFire adaptor where even at 100% volume the sound is
simply too low in many situations.

My next vehicle will probably not have a tape, so I will have to be
sure and get a car sterer with a line-in input.

--
There's a race of men that don't fit in,
A race that can't stay still
So they break the hearts of kith and kin,
And they roam the world at will.

--- begin forwarded text

From: Sven Kornmann

Dear Adam,

I recently translated your article for the German issue of TidBITS
and also followed the discussion on TidBITS Talk and noticed that the
most superior solution for using an iPod in the car has not yet been
mentioned. The reason might be that for some reason there is no
reseller for the US yet. The talk is about Dension, a Hungarian
specialist for MP3 player car integration. Their main product is the
Ice Link line which provides integration of all iPods (and other
audio devices) with probably almost every OEM and aftermarket car
stereo on the planet. As it is not a mobile solution it is similar to
Harman/Kardon's Drive & Play, but even more sophisticated (e.g. there
is no need for a separate screen or control buttons).
It connects via antenna cable (FM), direct input (for stereos that
have an input jack) or CD-Charger connector, which allows for
controlling the iPod with the car stereo. Some solutions support the
Apple Remote, others are capable of showing videos on the car's (rear
seat) entertainment system.

I don't know if you ever heard of Dension but in Germany it is the
clear No. 1 choice for iPod integration. Of course it needs some time
and skilled hands (or a dealer) for installation, but some friends of
mine are already using the system and are amazed. This is the link to
the manufacturer's web site.

http://www.dension.com/main.htm

Regards
Sven Kornmann

--- end forwarded text

Hi, I think I have some relevant info for anyone wanting to listen to their iPod in the car.

My advice, having done this twice, is this: Simply buy the cheapest car stereo you can find that has a built in front auxiliary jack. Then get a $2 cable with a male headphone-type jack on each end, and use that to plug in the iPod.

A great stereo for this purpose is the Sony CDX-GT100 (~$100) or the Sony CDX-GT200 (~120). As far as I can tell, the only difference is that the 200 plays MP3 CDs. These are available from Best Buy or Crutchfield.

With Crutchfield, you will need to install it yourself. However, - They will usually throw in a harness (basically, an adaptor that allows you to connect a given stereo to your particular model of car) for free - They include pretty clear instructions for installation. - Installing usually isn't as hard as you think. Look at it this way -- thousands of dim teenagers do it every day.

Best Buy usually periodically has weeks where, if you pay for a stereo, they will install it for free. However, you will still need to pay a little more for a harness.

From an operational standpoint, the only real downsides to this, I think, are:

1. If you turn the car off, the iPod will not automatically shut off. On the other hand, if you just unplug the iPod, it will Pause, then eventually go to sleep.

2. You can't control the iPod with the car stereo controls. But ... so? The iPod has a better navigation system anyway!

Finally, the point of buying a cheap stereo is, trust me, once you get used to having the iPod in your car, you will pretty much never find yourself using the stereo, so any advanced special features will just go to waste anyway.

- Alaska Jack

        Auto makers are catching on to the iPod (relatively slowly)...

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2006/08/03/car_makers_drive_incar_ipods/

>Ford today pledged to listening to what its customers are listening
>to and make it easier for motorists to hook up an MP3 player to
>their car stereos. Top of list of new features for its 2007 line-up
>are auxiliary audio input jacks, but the auto maker also promised
>tighter iPod integration for its higher-end motors.


>... 70 per cent of all the 2007-model autos offered in the US will
>feature iPod integration, Apple claimed.

        I assume 70% includes 3.5mm earphone jacks in the dash, but
this was obviously the thing to do a couple years ago. Even if you're
doing a smart iPod Dock connector with snazzy LCD, an earphone
in-jack will work with any portable MP3, CD, Blu-Ray, or whatever
player, so it's a good hedge. And cars last longer than iPods...


                                        Chris
--
Chris Pepper: <http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/>
Rockefeller University: <http://www.rockefeller.edu/>

hello, i would just like to say how silly everyone is being over ipod integration.it really is simple. all you need is a cassette play in your car. then you just buy a 3.5mm jack to cassette converter. i got one from woolworths for 4 pounds, then, if its really hat important to have a little stand, the use your ipod dock(if you have one) if you havent got one, then... i dno... GET ONE?it really is simple.a cant beeive people are talking about pulling a stereo aparttoplug your ipod in.it really is ludicrous. also, you can get a 3.5mm jack to cassette converter at argos, or dixons, or currys, or pcworld, or any shop really.

THOMAS ROBERTS wrote:
> hello, i would just like to say how silly everyone is being over ipod
> integration.it really is simple. all you need is a cassette play in
> your car.

Except they don't always work and many times work but not very well in
terms of sound quality.

AND more and more cars come without cassette players. :)

On 27/10/2006 9:14 AM, "THOMAS ROBERTS" <harry_potterkidhotmail.com> spake
thus:

> all you need is a cassette play in your car. then you just buy a 3.5mm jack to
> cassette converter.

True, although they can be a little noisy in my experience at least, maybe
it was just my adaptor (a good excuse to turn the music up louder :) I
believe the sound quality can sometimes not be that great too.

If your car stereo has a line in on the front (like mine) then you have an
even simpler solution: just acquire a 3.5mm to 3.5mm mini plug cable and
plug it straight in. Works great, and I just pop the iPod into the tray at
the bottom of the console, no stand necessary!

--
Nigel Stanger, Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND.
http://xri.net/=nigel.stanger

On 26 Oct 2006, at 14:14 , THOMAS ROBERTS wrote:
> hello, i would just like to say how silly everyone is being over
> ipod integration.it really is simple. all you need is a cassette
> play in your car. then you just buy a 3.5mm jack to cassette
> converter. i got one from woolworths for 4 pounds, then, if its
> really hat important to have a little stand, the use your ipod dock
> (if you have one) if you havent got one, then... i dno... GET ONE?
> it really is simple.a cant beeive people are talking about pulling
> a stereo aparttoplug your ipod in.it really is ludicrous. also, you
> can get a 3.5mm jack to cassette converter at argos, or dixons, or
> currys, or pcworld, or any shop really.

Well, first off, the quality off the tape converters, especially the
cheaper ones, is pretty poor. Second, accessing the ipod itself, or
the playlists, can be awkward without a stand/holder that positions
it well. Third, when you turn off the car, the ipod keep playing
unless you remember to turn it off as well.

I just put an Alpine unit into my new work car. The ipod sits in the
glove compartment, plugged in via a dock connector. The Alpine can
access all the playlists on the ipod, turns off the ipod when the car
is off, turns it on when the car comes on, and displays the artist/
album/song info on the unit's display.

The model I bought can be extended with a bluetooth connection kit so
that it integrates with my mobile phone, something that I may end up
doing, though that's another US$150.

I like it quite a lot. I assume it has a decent radio and plays mp3/
wmas fine, but I wouldn't know. I plugged my ipod in the second the
installer was done and haven't touched it since.

The only thing I noticed was a slight failing was that the Alpine did
not set its clock in sync with the iPod, and searching via the alpine
interface reminds you just how good the iPod interface is.

I have 2 cars. One has a aux-in 3.5mm port. The other (Toyota) has a
plain factory installed CD player.

In the car with the aux-in port, I have a Belkin auto-kit:

http://tinyurl.com/zbpt7

The Belkin is now permanently plugged into the cigarette lighter, with
a 3.5mm audio plug between it, and the aux-in port.

Essentially, it works like Adam's Tuneflex, except it does not have
the gooseneck, and it's not nano-specific. (There is a Tuneflex that
works with all but the nano as well.) I like it because I can't
imagine the Tuneflex+iPod weight will be a good thing for the
cigarette lighter port.

The advantage of this setup is that

1. the 3.5mm audio cable is permanently in place.
2. Line-out audio: the audio is IMHO clearer than from the iPod
built-in 3.5mm output. I also can no longer accidentally adjust the
iPod volume while driving. Volume adjustments are made on the car
stereo itself.
3. The iPod pauses and resumes when the car engine is stopped/started.
4. The iPod charges.

If I had a casette adaptor, I'd use the Belkin kit between the iPod
and the casette adaptor as well, as the above advantages still apply,
and some of the disadvantages mentioned by Google Kreme are overcome.

On the 2nd car with the factory-installed CD player, I got a cable
that plug into the CD-changer port on the back of the head-unit. I did
the installation myself, which was exciting.

http://www.xcarlink.com/detail.asp?id=33

A dock connector attaches to the iPod. Most importantly, this means
crystal clear audio.

Side benefits:
1. My iPod charges.
2. The iPod pauses/resumes when engine stops/starts.
3. Line-out audio, as above.
4. The cigarette port is free for other things.

Both solutions work with any iPod with a dock connector. Both
solutions also work with any device with a 3.5mm audio-out, although
some of the benefits above, are lost.

I'm a fan of ceding control of my audio-listening to the iPod itself.
This means not actively controlling what it plays too much. I have a
smart playlist containing my unplayed podcasts, that I play in series.
I also have a couple of smart playlists that have "least recently
played songs", with/without some from of rating. This means (when I'm
not listening to podcasts), I usually just select "shuffle", and
listen to what the iPod wants to play. Subsequently, my
iPod-interaction is usually just "next track". This allows me to not
crave an iPod stand.

I find that expecting too much integration between the headunit & the
iPod (i.e. displays the track name, recognises playlists, allows
repeat/random etc), to be too hard, expensive, and frequently
disappointing. Not to mention possibly dangerous, while driving.

Thank you, fcchuan! xcarlink is an ideal solution for iPod. and there is another one for USB flash.

http://www.xcarlink.com/