Tigre en multilingue?

On May 24, 2006, at 8:40 AM, s-teramoto wrote:

> My questions are as follows:
> - If I with to work in both Dutch and Japanese, do I need only
> install OS X twice over, or is OS X-NL (or -UK, -D etc.) different
> from OS X-J, so that I need to buy OS X twice over as well?

No, just one OS X, you switch the languages in a few seconds by
changing preference settings, or you can have different languages in
different accounts.

>
> - From my contacts in Japan I understand AWorks-J can do vertical
> text. Is this also true of AWorks-NL (or -UK, -D etc.)?

See this page:

http://www.yale.edu/chinesemac/pages/apps.html#AW

AppleWorks is pretty outdated in any case. OS X apps that can do
vertical text are MS Word, NeoOffice/J, and LightWay Text.

>
> - In order to obtain a Dutch spelling checker, do I have to buy OS X
> here in the Netherlands or in Belgium?

No, OS X comes with spellcheckers for a variety of languages, including
Dutch.

For more general info you can see:

http://homepage.mac.com/thgewecke/mlingos9.html

http://homepage.mac.com/thgewecke/TypingJapanese.html

Den 24/05/2006 kl. 22.44 skrev Tom Gewecke:

>> - In order to obtain a Dutch spelling checker, do I have to buy OS X
>> here in the Netherlands or in Belgium?
>
> No, OS X comes with spellcheckers for a variety of languages,
> including
> Dutch.

The multilingual features of OS X are very impressive. On my sister's
iMac, I made an account for her Japanese son-in-law in Japanese and
for herself, she is using Danish.

One very bad thing about the spelling checker, though, is the
severely limited number of supported languages (only 8), missing, for
instance, Danish, Norwegian, Greek, Flemish (if this differs from
Nederlands that is included in OS X, I don't know). This feels rather
silly, as there is a strong open-source solution at hand, Aspell,
with several languages supported(74, I think). Luckily, someone took
his time porting it:

http://cocoaspell.leuski.net

Kind regards,

Kim

On 24 May 2006, at 09:40 , s-teramoto wrote:
> My questions are as follows:
> - If I with to work in both Dutch and Japanese, do I need only
> install OS X twice over, or is OS X-NL (or -UK, -D etc.) different
> from OS X-J, so that I need to buy OS X twice over as well?

Even better, you install OS X ONCE.

Yes, just once.

You can either create two accounts (one Japaneses and one Dutch) or
you can create one account and switch back and forth sorta mostly on
the fly.

> - From my contacts in Japan I understand AWorks-J can do vertical
> text. Is this also true of AWorks-NL (or -UK, -D etc.)?

I haven't used Appleworks in years, but I think the OS X version (a
free update) includes both Japanese and Dutch. It's pretty long in
the tooth though, and has been basically abandoned in favor of Pages.


> - In order to obtain a Dutch spelling checker, do I have to buy OS
> X here in the Netherlands or in Belgium?

No, OS X has spellchecking for most, if not all, of its installed
languages.

--
My biggest problem is that Steve insists on serving PURPLE Kool Aid,
and I don't like PURPLE <sip sip> Kool Aid.

On 2006-05-26, at 04:33, Google Kreme wrote:

> You can either create two accounts (one Japaneses and one Dutch) or
> you can create one account and switch back and forth sorta mostly on
> the fly.

If you install OSXvnc and Chicken of the VNC you don't even need to
switch users--you can have a window open to the background user from
the front user ;-)

I love the multilingual qualities of OS X, but can anyone help me with an idiot's guide to how to type in Greek using Office X?

For some reason, which I am sure is minor, I'm not getting this right, even though I am switching on Greek in Sys Prefs > International.

Should be easy right?

I should clarify that I can get a Greek keyboard and type in Greek fine in Mail, TextEdit etc. It's just Word that won't play ball. The Greek keyboard icon on the menu bar is greyed out when I go into it.

Using Tiger, Office X etc.



[My gut feeling is that this is something that improved in Office 2004. -Adam]



Thanks.

David

Hello everyone,

Thank you for the replies so far :-).

Even better, you install Mac OS X ONCE.

Yes, just once.

You can either create two accounts (one Japaneses and one Dutch) or you can create one account and switch back and forth sorta mostly on the fly.

Thus I understand there is only one OS X -- no more fuss about language versions or language kits, as far as the software itself is concerned :-).

Can Japanese-speaking users tell me, though, about the success or otherwise they had in obtaining documentation in Japanese about OS X (especially about input methods) for copies of OS X they bought outside Japan?

As for Flemish, this is Dutch as spoken by Flemings (natives of Flanders (northern Belgium)). Though the names of laws, public-sector bodies etc. differ between the Netherlands and Flanders (as they do between the UK and the Rep. of Ireland, for instance) and the use of certain words and phrases differs, as I notice when I watch Canvas, there is a common spelling for Dtuch, which applies in the Netherlands, Flanders and Surinam. Indeed, spelling revisions are what the Dutch Language Union is known for among the general public here.

Speaking of spelling checkers, has anyone had success in porting word lists (especially custom ones) from Claris apps (in a wide sense, including AWorks, FileMaker etc.) to OS X?

Can someone also clear up the question of how many languages Tiger includes spelling checkers for? Hopefully someone who has Steve's ear convinced him to include one for UK English :-).

Also, I was actually expecting replies from readers in multilingual countries like Belgium and Switzerland. After all, secretarial jobs ( to name an example) in the Belgian capital Brussels require proficiency in at least three languages: French and Dutch (Brussels being a bilingual city) as well as German and/or English.

Can Belgian readers perhaps explain how the Delhaize supermarket chain had dealt with the language laws over the years?

Has the subject of multilingualism, spelling checkers and the like been dealt with in Take Control e-books on Mac OS X so far, and is the subject going to be included in your forthcoming e-books on Leopard?

Finally, about the title for my first posting: Tigre is the French word for tiger, while multilingue refers to the theory and practice of using multiple languages. Hopefully the title attracted plenty of notice ;-).

With greetings from partly clouded The Hague, - Seiju Teramoto.

Many thanks for the replies about Greek and Microsoft Word. Indeed Office X doesn't support Greek. Office 2004 does.

Best

David

On May 30, 2006, at 5:56 PM, s-teramoto wrote:

> Can Japanese-speaking users tell me, though, about the success or
> otherwise they had in obtaining documentation in Japanese about OS
> X (especially about input methods) for copies of OS X they bought
> outside Japan?

This isn't a problem. Even when English (or any other language, for
that matter) is set as the default language, if you select "Kotoeri
Help" from the IM menu, you will get Apple's help for Koteri (which
is their Japanese IM) in Japanese.

Also, all Apple apps (at least those bundled with OSX, and the iLife
apps) are localized (menus, etc) for Japanese and have help files
included in Japanese, along with the system help files. However,
these are only accessible in Japanese when Japanese is set as the
default language for the user account (in System Preferences-
 >International->Languages). In fact, any application that is
localized in Japanese, and has the necessary help file included will
show the Japanese help when the user account language is set to
Japanese. The localization of third party apps is a bit hit or miss,
though most of the major titles and popular shareware are localized.

And for Apple apps, if you need more than the included help files,
you can always go to:

http://www.apple.com/jp/support/

Just like the English support site, you can find info about Apple
software there along with things like downloadable manuals in Japanese.

Hope this helps.

Tomoharu Nishino

On 31 mai 06, at 06:56, s-teramoto wrote:
[snip]
>
> Thus I understand there is only one OS X -- no more fuss about
> language versions or language kits, as far as the software itself
> is concerned :-).

For the OS, indeed. But when it comes to software, it's up to the
vendor to give you the localization. Not every one takes the time to
translate their menus. MS, for example, will be perfectly happy to
sell you its English version and its Japanese version.

> Can Japanese-speaking users tell me, though, about the success or
> otherwise they had in obtaining documentation in Japanese about OS
> X (especially about input methods) for copies of OS X they bought
> outside Japan?

Not having bought Tiger outside Japan, I can't help here, but I can
asure you there are plenty of books on OS X in Japanese, if the
manuals don't cover your needs. I guess you'll either have to buy
them via the net or by asking family/friend in Japan to get them for
you.

[snip]

> Can someone also clear up the question of how many languages Tiger
> includes spelling checkers for? Hopefully someone who has Steve's
> ear convinced him to include one for UK English :-).

Australian English; British English; Canadian English; Deutsch;
English; Español; Français; Italiano; Multilingual; Nederlands;
Português; Português do Brasil, Svenska.

Cyril

Many thanks for the replies about Greek and Microsoft Word. Indeed Office X doesn't support Greek. Office 2004 does.

Even in Office 2004, the support is relative. The only Keyboard Viewer available is US, which is not much help when typing in another script.

On 5 juin 06, at 07:38, p.mett wrote:
> Even in Office 2004, the support is relative. The only Keyboard
> Viewer available is US, which is not much help when typing in
> another script.

Which Keyboard viewer are you using? I guess there must be one in
Office, but I use the one from the system which works fine no matter
the layout you've chosen.

System Preferences/ International, click on the Input Menu tab, then
select the Keyboard viewer to make it active.

Cyril

>Many thanks for the replies about Greek and Microsoft Word. Indeed
>Office X doesn't support Greek. Office 2004 does.
>
>Even in Office 2004, the support is relative. The only Keyboard Viewer
>available is US, which is not much help when typing in another script.

One option is Nisus Writer Express.

<http://www.nisus.com/>

The wordprocessor Nisus has a long history of supporting a variety of
languages including those which read right to left.

If you have a need to handle Greek, this might be a solution for you.

I prefer Nisus over MS-Word especially for it's sophisticated Find/Replace
capabilities which will look for patterns of characters in addition to exact
matches.

BTW, I still have my copy of Joe Kissell's well-written book on the "classic"
version of Nisus Writer.

- Hank

Cyril wrote:

Which Keyboard viewer are you using? I guess there must be one in Office, but I use the one from the system which works fine no matter the layout you've chosen.

The OS X Keyboard Viewer

Are you sure you have tried it an Office 2004 app frontmost?

I have never seen it work from Word or Excel.

On 7 juin 06, at 01:23, p.mett wrote:
>
> The OS X Keyboard Viewer
>
> Are you sure you have tried it an Office 2004 app frontmost?
>
> I have never seen it work from Word or Excel.

Sure have, I did check before posting, since I don't use Office all
that much, nor the Keyboard viewer to be honest!
So :
excel v. 11.2.3
word 11.2
both work fine. I can change keyboards, input glyphs via the keyboard
viewer etc, all without a glitch.
I'm afraid that kind of answer does not help you, but at least you
know it is working.
Cyril

Cyril wrote:

Sure have, I did check before posting, since I don't use Office all that much, nor the Keyboard viewer to be honest! So : excel v. 11.2.3 word 11.2 both work fine. I can change keyboards, input glyphs via the keyboard viewer etc, all without a glitch.

I am glad to hear that. (Also confirmed to me by someone else.) I am now at a total loss to either explain why the problem arises (attested by others in the MS fora) or how to elinminate it.

I wonder whether Rosetta is implicated in this (but it doesn't make sense).



Percy