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The War Over Neutrality

[Pepper, Chris]Chris Pepper (apparently) - 10:07am May 18, 2006 PST
via email

[Yay! A new thread on this topic - please use this one rather than the poor overloaded "Net neutrality?" thread. -Adam]

>Defining Net Neutrality -- It's odd to say, but as a practical
>matter the Internet has never been neutral. Access methods and
>capabilities have always impacted the Internet experience. Just ask
>anyone downloading Apple's 100-plus megabyte system updates via
>dialup: they'll tell you the Internet is biased against them!
>Similarly, you may have a broadband connection, but maybe your new
>favorite band's MP3 files are being served over an ISDN line and
>still download at a snail's pace, or perhaps your cable provider
>can't quite keep up with the streaming QuickTime movie. Or maybe
>your ISP allows you to send mail only via their mail servers, rather
>than through your employer's or one you run yourself. And firewalls
>- which are everywhere these days - are all about taking the
>"neutral" out of the Internet: they deliberately screen and block
>different types of Internet traffic. Corporations routinely block
>peer-to-peer file sharing and services which are known security
>risks; schools enable access only to approved "whitelisted" sites
>(or blacklist problematic sites: Del Mar College in Texas recently
>blocked access to MySpace). Some technologies "shape" Internet
>traffic by limiting how much of available bandwidth can be used by
>certain users, locations, or services, and, of course, some
>governments actively block and censor the Internet. These are all
>current examples of non-neutral behavior on the Internet today.

<http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=08528>

        I don't agree with this statement. While Internet access
isn't all the same (your ISDN isn't the same as my DSL or someone
else's modem, or the University's Internet uplink), the Network
Neutrality debate is specifically about traffic shaping and QoS
(Quality of Service).

        The best-effort point is a good one. Historically, bandwidth
has been governed by three characteristics: physical connection
(optionally with a software limiter built into the local hardware),
interconnect characteristics (latency and other subtleties), and
contention. If there are 100 people using a 30mbps cable modem
downlink, they average 300kbps each. At 5am, the same people might
each get 10mbps. Customers who care about it largely understand this
-- it's a lot like the effect of traffic on a road.

        What seems pernicious in Verizon's & AT&T's statements is
that they want to add a higher level of restriction, where a central
office makes a more abstract decision about bandwidth. In this case,
"more abstract" means more flexible, and billable. Looking at
Google's and Microsoft's share values, they have to seem ripe for
some plucking.


        On the other hand, the telcos have a real concern that
they've oversold bandwidth, and thus can't deliver the service levels
they've *sold* to their own (video, VoIP, or whatever) customers.

        Logically from their perspective, they'd like to use QoS to
guarantee their own services work well, and would prefer *not* to use
QoS to help their competitors. But now they are in the ugly realm of
trying to "monetize" an existing system, which upsets everybody's
historical expectations. And customers don't want to be locked into
services from our ISPs through arbitrarily configured limitations.

        Even if Verizon doesn't have a relationship with Vonage or
Google, their common users do, and Verizon would like to assert
control over that relationship, which is almost certain to cause some
degree of harm those users, whether it's poor audio from Skype, or
lack of choice in video downloads, or higher fees for music stores
because the online music vendors need additional money to pay off the
ISPs.


        Making this all much more important, very few places have a
good variety of broadband options. Most of the people near us can get
cable from the cable company, or DSL from the phone company. Not
everybody can get cable, and not everybody can get DSL. Satellite is
not directly comparable to either, and DSL from an independent
provider like Speakeasy is significantly more expensive. In reality,
many people are stuck with their ISP for one reason or another, and
largely powerless to affect the relationships between these large
companies. I'm pretty sure Verizon isn't going to send customers an
survey one day, saying "Would you like Verizon services to use
[benefit from] QoS? Would you like non-Verizon services to use
[suffer under] QoS?"


        I understand that Verizon owns their circuits. They paid for
them with fees they charged customers like me, though. I have an
interest, and a stake as a member of the community they are legally
authorized to serve. Ownership of the infrastructure does not give
them the only voice in how things should be run.

        Part of this is the inevitable discomfort of progress. Movie
companies were terrified of videos, but VHS and DVD turned out to be
great moneymakers.

        Without email and Google, how many Internet customers do you
think AOL and Verizon would have today? To me, it's very clear that
AOL and Verizon should not get to choose which services work well on
the Internet.


                                                Chris Pepper
--
Chris Pepper: <http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/>
Rockefeller University: <http://www.rockefeller.edu/>


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edward - May 18, 2006 10:18 am (#1 Total: 5)  

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Re: The War Over Neutrality

[Rethreading this from the "Net neutrality?" thread that's out of control... -Adam]

At 10:14 05/17/06 -0700, Peter Sichel wrote:
If we as Internet users allow someone else to pay for our end of the network, we will gradually lose control over it.


For a long time I've been making the same point with respect to web browsers. That battle is lost -- AFAIK every major web browser is now push-supported (via the mechanism of kickbacks from the search engines to which they direct traffic from their UI). Even Mozilla, though I don't know how the payments are used. The highest-profile exception I know of is iCab. (I'm using the term "push-supported" rather than "advertising-supported" because the significant point in this context is that the sender rather than the receiver is in control. The fact that the send is engaged in advertising is a side issue.)

Note that even before the direct push support, IE and NN were essentially beholden to content providers. The providers had a voice that users didn't, and supported MS and Netscape in less direct ways.

How bad has the result been? Well, few browsers make it easy to customize the user's experience. Disabling images, plug-ins, animated GIFs and other moving elements, and style sheet components is difficult in most browsers, meaning the nontechnical user generally gets bombarded with whatever the web site designers choose. Opera, which for a long time was user-supported, has offered much better user control. Will that change now that Opera too is push-supported? It's too early to tell.

Edward

tekelenb (apparently) - May 19, 2006 10:10 am (#2 Total: 5)  

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Re: The War Over Neutrality

At 10:07 -0700 UTC, on 2006-05-18, Chris Pepper wrote:

[...]

        [telcos]

> Logically from their perspective, they'd like to use QoS to
> guarantee their own services work well, and would prefer *not* to use
> QoS to help their competitors.

I think that's an important point because it relates directly to an older and
more basic issue: if Internet *access* providers would not be doubling as
*content* providers this whole issue of 'Net neutraility' wouldn't exist.

There's an old argument that keeping those two services separated would be
better for consumers, who could then chose the access provider of their
choice without being forced to pay for content they're not interested in. But
it seems to me that model would also make this whole 'Net neutrality' issue
irrelevant.

I suspect the only way to separate content providers from access providers is
through governmental regulation. I don't see how the market itself can
provide it.


--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>

Lewis Butler (apparently) - May 19, 2006 10:10 am (#3 Total: 5)  

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Re: The War Over Neutrality

On 18 May 2006, at 11:07 , Chris Pepper wrote:
> And customers don't want to be locked into
> services from our ISPs through arbitrarily configured limitations.

This says it quite well. For example, I use comcast for my home
connection. The only service of comcast's that I use is the
connection itself. I don't use their email servers, their web site,
their news feed, or, in point of fact, ANYTHING they provided other
than the pipe to the net. Having the quality of my pipe's 'pressure'
degraded in favor of a bunch of things I don't use and don't want to
use would make me pretty angry.

> Even if Verizon doesn't have a relationship with Vonage or
> Google, their common users do, and Verizon would like to assert
> control over that relationship, which is almost certain to cause some
> degree of harm those users, whether it's poor audio from Skype, or
> lack of choice in video downloads, or higher fees for music stores
> because the online music vendors need additional money to pay off the
> ISPs.

It's called Veriscum for a reason.


On 18 May 2006, at 11:18 , edward wrote:
> few browsers make it easy to customize
> the user's experience. Disabling images, plug-ins, animated GIFs
> and other
> moving elements, and style sheet components is difficult in most
> browsers,
> meaning the nontechnical user generally gets bombarded with
> whatever the
> web site designers choose.

Well, the reason this is difficult to do in most browsers is because
it is, in fact, difficult to do.

Even Firefox, out-of-the-box so to speak, can't do this, but it
offers extensions that can. Of course, most users will never install
an extension unless their alpha-geek does it for them.

There are several sites that I use on a daily basis that I simply
refuse to go to without some sort of blocking mechanism in place (the
ones that seem to generate all their ad revenue advertising 'dating'
sites that look more like Hooker-on-Line are the worst). But the
choices of what to block and what not to block are difficult and
cannot be simply done with a basic browser configuration.

I wish Safari would add a setting saying "don't load graphics from
remote URLs" but that would be a bit of a geek feature and would
likely really confuse some people, and break a lot of sites, so I
understand it not being there.


--
Well boys, we got three engines out, we got more holes in us than a
horse trader's mule, the radio is gone and we're leaking fuel and if
we was flying any lower why we'd need sleigh bells on this thing...
but we got one little budge on those Roosskies. At this height why
they might harpoon us but they dang sure ain't gonna spot us on no
radar screen!


dordan (apparently) - May 20, 2006 2:18 pm (#4 Total: 5)  

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Re: The War Over Neutrality

>I wish Safari would add a setting saying "don't load graphics from
>remote URLs" but that would be a bit of a geek feature and would
>likely really confuse some people, and break a lot of sites, so I
>understand it not being there.


Hello,
Have Firefox and have installed several extensions. what a pain
all-in-all, so i simply stayed with iCab.
Sure it has its faults, but most of the blocking/css/image control
issues you mention are built in ... are you familiar with it?

<http://www.icab.de>
and a pretty good group at: <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/icab/>

AS a daily browser, it is my default. Safari is a second choice and
needed for some sites and Firefox for still other sites. Browsers
being tools, I doubt one tool will ever address all needs, as I'm
sure you know.


Anyway, if you havent given iCab a spin it may address some needs you
mentioned. For instance -individual sites- can be filtered for images
or JavaScript and or several other criteria.

Heres to hoping this isnt all just old news for you
Fred C

[Just a quick note here: let's return this thread to discussions of net neutrality and not get into exploring the relative merits of various browsers! -Joe]

Kirk McElhearn (apparently) - May 17, 2006 10:08 am (#5 Total: 5)  

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Neutrality?



On May 16, 2006, at 1:42 AM, TidBITS Editors wrote:

> Corporations routinely block peer-to-peer file sharing and
> services which are known security risks; schools enable access
> only to approved "whitelisted" sites (or blacklist problematic
> sites: Del Mar College in Texas recently blocked access to
> MySpace).

Wow, do I disagree! These examples have nothing to do with
"neutrality", but rather how companies or organizations manage the
networks they own and pay for. If you were to say that something was
effectively being censored by government, then, yes, I'd say you have
a point (which you do mention later). But any organization has the
right to block whatever they want from entering or leaving their
network at any time.


Kirk
                    Co-author of: Podcasting Pocket Guide
                      http://www.mcelhearn.com/ppg.html
                - - - - - -
              Read my blog: Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com
           Musings, Opinion and Miscellanea, on Macs, iPods and more






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