Comments on A Switcher's Tale

Very much enjoyed the article, as it closely parallels my own corporate situation with respect to Macs and PCs. There's just no way I can do my job without a PC, or at least a fast Mac running VPC. We also use Exchange based email and calendaring, and with out a useable client (Entourage comes close, but still has several potentially embarrassing shortcomings) it's just not possible to stay in the game. And like the author, I can't afford to be without the new PCMCIA wireless modem that provides internet assess on the road, nor the corporate VPN software that gets me inside the company firewall. So for now at least I'll stay with the 1.25GHz AlBook that's served so well over the last few years.

On the home front I still keep a PC around to manage a Garmin GPS (there's a Mac client on the way, but the most essential functionality won't be provided until late this year), maintain/upgrade a TiVo unit, and use various proprietary software packages not available on the Mac. It's worth noting that the PC spends more time downloading virus patches from Microsoft than it does doing real work for me. The Mac manages for everything else: correspondence, email, video and still photo editing, centralized music distribution, home control, telephone answering system, personal accounting, and even serving two web domains via the built in Apache server and dyndns.com through a DSL connection. It's not skipped a beat, and even when encoding a DVD it remains responsive to all the other tasks (it's a 2.5GHz Dual G5).

I think it's great that Apple continues to innovate, but wish they'd cover the bases just a bit better on the corporate front. Perhaps the transition to Intel hardware will make truly fast PC emulation possible. But an even better solution would be for Apple to work with Microsoft and other vendors like Garmin to provide tools on a par with those available to our PC brothers.

Scot, Dublin, California

On Mar 15, 2006, at 22:50 PM, Chris Luth wrote:

> This isn't to denigrate her: she's a smart individual and has
> caught on quickly, considering where she started. My point is that
> the difference between the two buttons isn't all that intuitive to
> computer newbies, which has traditionally been the Mac's target
> audience.

I think it's important to stress that the Mac's target audience isn't
computer newbies per se, so much as people who want to use computers
productively rather than study them as a discipline. :-)

> I'm simply saying that you shouldn't assume that everyone is
> familiar with two buttons.

I've been a software developer for about twenty years, primarily
writing Mac software and with a couple of years doing Windows
programming. I don't have a primary source for this information, but
it has long been said in both Mac and Windows development that a
minority of users use the right button or know what it is for and how
to decide when to use one button vs. another.

My own personal observation is that at least some long-time computer
users with multi-button mice either will often choose not to use or
will not be aware of the contextual menu available through the right
button.

Users who make frequent use of multi-button mice (raises hand) are of
course more likely to complain bitterly about single button mice.

--
Chris Page - Computer Professional

  The most likely way for the world to be destroyed, most experts agree,
  is by accident. That's where we come in; we're computer professionals.
  We cause accidents. -- Nathaniel Borenstein

On Mar 16, 2006, at 1:50 AM, scot wrote:

> There's just no way I can do my job
> without a PC, or at least a fast Mac running VPC.

That's what my boss thought too. I just started a new job for a
startup, and my boss ordered me a Windows PC. But it would take a
week or so for it to get there -- could I be troubled to use my
laptop instead? I went one better - I had a Mac Mini that wasn't
doing much. Now, about two months later -- the Windows PC is pretty
much gathering dust. The tech support department uses it when they
need a PC that's close to unmodified. Admittedly, most of what I do
is software development and Linux system administration; I use basic
email features in Entourage, and a bit of scheduling, so I am
unlikely to encounter what you consider the serious shortcomings of
Entourage[1]; I'm also not a road warrior, and my needs are served
just as well by SSH as by a full-on VPN.

> I think it's great that Apple continues to innovate, but wish
> they'd cover the
> bases just a bit better on the corporate front. Perhaps the
> transition to Intel
> hardware will make truly fast PC emulation possible. But an even
> better solution
> would be for Apple to work with Microsoft and other vendors like
> Garmin to
> provide tools on a par with those available to our PC brothers.

This is the crux of the problem! Every situation I've run into where
I've needed a Windows machine has been a situation where a vendor
decided it was adequate to support 90% and let the other 10% hang.
Software developed using ActiveX controls, limiting its use to MSIE
users on Windows. Missing device drivers (in your case, for a GPS
device; in my case, for a cell phone) -- sometimes intentionally so
(I finally got the drivers from someone who had downloaded them when
Sprint officially supported Macs). Niche software that only runs on
Windows because the developer doesn't have the resources or knowledge
to port it.

I'm afraid that for most of these people, the only real solution is
to hit them in the wallet. Don't buy devices or software that don't
work with the Mac, and tell them you're doing it.

Charlton



[1] Although thus far Entourage seems to me like one huge
shortcoming. There are many people who consider it the best Mac mail
client; given how clunky it is, how un-Mac-like it feels, and how
there are a few things it seems to refuse to do, I'm astounded they
continue to hold that opinion. But it does the job I ask it to do,
and it communicates acceptably well with the Exchange server.

--
Charlton Wilbur
cwilburchromatico.net

On Mar 15, 2006, at 10:50 PM, Chris Luth wrote:

> In today's TidBITS, guest writer and switcher "Robert Movin" (pen
> name, I guess) said, "Every Windows user is used to two buttons on
> a mouse, so stop trying to change those habits if you want us to
> switch."
>
> Not every Windows user. Maybe most, but not every.

Yes, it's a pen name, and so stated at the start of the article.

I'm not even sure it is "most." It probably is "most" heavy duty
Windows users. But nearly every Saturday at the Port Ludlow Computer
Club "workshop" session, someone asks "How do I ...?" in cases where
the answer is at the top level of the contextual menu associated with
the item asked about (not counting the additional actions in submenus).

I should note first that I am no longer using a single-button mouse
(MightyMouse on the Mini, Microsoft optical on the G4). But...it
isn't always necessary to use the control key to get the contextual
menu (or whatever else right-click would offer, as in the menu
associated with a dock icon). Press an hold works in many cases.

That said, I'm surprised that--now that MightyMouse is shipping with
new non-laptops--the new laptop design didn't provide two buttons
(perhaps with System Preferences option to make them effectively one).

   --John

I remember reading somewhere once-upon-a-time that it was not to
'constrain simpleton users' that Apple has fought for single button
mice so long, but to constrain programmers that don't focus on human
interface design.

The idea that hiding things that should (also) be in the
application's main menuing system in a contextual right-click menu
AND AVAILABLE NO WHERE ELSE is an ok/good idea is insane. I don't
know how many times as a knowledgeable IT person I've been tripped up
trying to do a simple task, only to find after googling it that the
programmer decided to make it available via a contextual right-click
when selecting icon x and the moon is in the seventh hour. Doesn't
happen much (if at all) on the Mac, unless one is running a ported
game or software that started originally on the PC.

So I buy that explanation of Apple's philosophy, not the stupid-user
one. My daughter was able to learn/figure out how to use a two-
button mouse (ie, ignore the button on the right) as a 3-year old.
But then again, they're truly sponges at that age (TiVo plus PBS =
reading at a 2-3rd grade level at 4 1/2 years of age -- she operates
the TiVo and picks her own PBS shows to watch).

I still love my 2-button mouse on my Mac, but more for the scroll
wheel than for the second button. Unless I'm gaming.


[All entirely good points, but let's keep the focus of this thread on switching, rather than moving entirely to the standard multiple button mouse discussion. :-) -Adam]


M

On 16/3/2006 11:43 PM, "Chris Page" <tidbitschris-page.org> spake thus:

> I think it's important to stress that the Mac's target audience isn't
> computer newbies per se, so much as people who want to use computers
> productively rather than study them as a discipline. :-)

Of course that doesn't imply that those of us who *do* study them as a
discipline (raises hand) aren't interested in using them productively ;) I
never used to care all that much, but my tolerance for unusability (?) seems
to have decreased with age :) Now I want things to just work, dammit!

--
Nigel Stanger, Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND.
http://public.xdi.org/=nigel.stanger

Chris Luth said...

>In today's TidBITS, guest writer and switcher "Robert Movin" (pen name, I
>guess) said, "Every Windows user is used to two buttons on a mouse, so
>stop trying to change those habits if you want us to switch."
>
>Not every Windows user. Maybe most, but not every.

We've probably had this discussion before but...

I don't get the MS-Windows complaints about a single button mouse.
If you want more than one button, go and buy a device which fits
your needs. Buy more if that makes you happy. There are many
options for input devices including multi-button mice, trackpads, graphics
tablets, trackballs, and more.

Personally, 2 button mice (or more than 2 buttons if you've seen some
Unix machines) don't work for me. On the Mac I use a different
paradigm, the key-mouse button combo (e.g. option-button press) which
works great for me and provides many options.

Thanks for "listening"

- Hank

On 3/17/06 12:11 PM, "Hank Harken" <hank.harkenasu.edu> wrote:

> I don't get the MS-Windows complaints about a single button mouse.
> If you want more than one button, go and buy a device which fits
> your needs. Buy more if that makes you happy. There are many
> options for input devices including multi-button mice, trackpads, graphics
> tablets, trackballs, and more.

I've always felt that way when it comes to desktops but on a laptop, you
can't replace the integrated mousing device therefore you're stuck with
one button. Way back in the day, the complaint was more justified because
the Mac OS didn't have native support for a right mouse button but more
importantly, the OS and applications didn't use the contextual menu, pardon
the word, paradigm. Without contextual menus being designed into
applications, additional mouse buttons are merely macro triggers that must
to be configured on a per-application basis.

Someone had the idea of adapting the Mighty Mouse technology (or at least
simulating the behavior) into the trackpad so the right side of the trackpad
could act like a right-mouse button if it was set to do so (checkbox in
System Preferences). I think that's a great idea, the trackpad would look
and feel as it always has for those who prefer one button and those that
want to would get the functionality they desire.

On Mar 17, 2006, at 12:11 PM, Hank Harken wrote:
> Personally, 2 button mice (or more than 2 buttons if you've seen some
> Unix machines) don't work for me. On the Mac I use a different
> paradigm, the key-mouse button combo (e.g. option-button press) which
> works great for me and provides many options.

I feel the same way - and my first experience with pointing devices
was on a Unix workstation with a 3-button mouse. When I got myself a
Mac mini, I ordered the wireless mouse because I don't like the
fiddliness of the Mighty Mouse. If I could pay extra for an old-
fashioned Apple Pro Mouse, I would.

And I'm an old-fashioned pre-Linux Unix user....

--
Charlton Wilbur
cwilburchromatico.net

On Mar 21, 2006, at 11:17 AM, Curtis Wilcox wrote:

> I've always felt that way when it comes to desktops but on a
> laptop, you
> can't replace the integrated mousing device therefore you're stuck
> with
> one button. Way back in the day, the complaint was more justified
> because
> the Mac OS didn't have native support for a right mouse button but
> more
> importantly, the OS and applications didn't use the contextual
> menu, pardon
> the word, paradigm. Without contextual menus being designed into
> applications, additional mouse buttons are merely macro triggers
> that must
> to be configured on a per-application basis.

"Way back in the day"? I was using a three-button mouse with System
7 -- the OS understood contextual menus, it was just designed so that
they weren't ever necessary. (One of the X Window System
workstations I used was a Quadra running MacX, and it had a three-
button mouse for that reason. But as I recall, the right mouse
button brought up a contextual menu even then.) And the first
Powerbooks dated from about the same time as System 7, no?

The thing I think that is likely to be lost if Apple ever completely
abandons the one-button mouse is the simplicity of application design
that it encourages. I don't need to randomly right-click and hope,
as I do in poorly-designed Windows applications; part of this, no
doubt, is due to the inherent coolness of Apple developers, but I'd
bet a large part of it, especially in cross-platform applications, is
due to the fact that the programmers can't simply assume that
everyone has a two-button mouse and madly right-clicks everywhere.

Charlton


--
Charlton Wilbur
cwilburchromatico.net

On Mar 21, 2006, at 9:17 AM, Curtis Wilcox wrote:

> On 3/17/06 12:11 PM, "Hank Harken" <hank.harkenasu.edu> wrote:
>
> on a laptop, you
> can't replace the integrated mousing device therefore you're stuck
> with
> one button.
>
> Someone had the idea of adapting the Mighty Mouse technology (or at
> least
> simulating the behavior) into the trackpad so the right side of the
> trackpad
> could act like a right-mouse button if it was set to do so
> (checkbox in
> System Preferences).

Or better yet, the right side of the button could work that way. Just
have it on a rocker switch and, by default, both sides of the rocker
do the same thing. Or take the Mighty Mouse approach and use a
capacitance sensor, but I've always preferred manual switches.

What I've done in the meantime is use SideTrack so that I can assign
trackpad taps to left click and use the button for right click.
(Alternatively, I could program a corner of the trackpad as a right
click or various other options.) It works great, except that it
confuses the heck out of people when they borrow my computer. Every
click brings up a contextual menu!

<http://ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/index.html>

--Nik