Traveling in Europe in a Van with a PowerBook

On 2 Feb 2006, at 15:16, Mark Hurvitz wrote:

> As a related issue… if anyone knows of the best and (if possible)
> cheapest way to get a cell phone that works in all those countries,
> please make suggestions.

I read the other day that Ofcom are enquiring into unfair pricing
structures with mobile phone companies when taking phones abroad or
subscribing to roaming contracts in Europe. The bottom line was a
recommendation that you buy a cheap chuckaway phone in each country
(or SIM) to get around the inflated charges. Here in the UK you can
very good SIM deals, such as the ones available through TESCO
(www.tesco.com) but then you don't mention Scotland, which is usually
very pleasant in late May :0)

Can't help with the voltage spec for the dormobile though. I would be
slightly suspicious of claims to offer a 230v loom, as opposed to a
step down transformer but I have no idea. Voltage varies in Europe as
you probably know.

Drew

> Understanding this is not my strong suit. I will have my PowerBook G4
> and expect to keep notes and update my personal Web site while en
> route. Other than finding local WiFi hot spots, I don't think the
> updating will be a problem. My concern (and the lack of my knowledge)
> is: what do I need to get to make sure I can plug my PowerBook's
> power source into the outlets provided in the van?

It should be a standard car 12 volt outlet, which will be okay for
any car adaptor your Powerbook can run off. I am surprised that you
will have 230 volt supply except possibly of a service post in a camp
site, then you will need a 2 pin adaptor.

This site is useful for which country uses which plugs

http://users.pandora.be/worldstandards/electricity.htm#plugs

The Powerbook should adjust itself to suit the voltage.

HTH

Mike

Am 02.02.2006 um 16:16 schrieb Mark Hurvitz:

>> There is a 12V cigarette lighter in the camper. When plugged in to
>> external power you'll have 230V in the camper too.
>
> what do I need to get to make sure I can plug my PowerBook's
> power source into the outlets provided in the van?

If you use power bricks which are capable of doing 220 or 230V you
can't do anything wrong. If the outlet is for 220/230V the plug is
coded. The cigarette lighter will only provide 12V in any case.

IIRC it's possible to switch some devices from in-car use (12V) to in-
house use (230V). You only have 230V in your car if you use a power
outlet on the camp ground. Different countries may use different
standards, I'm not quite sure. But I think you have to use a special
one (a blue one) on most camp grounds. Your camper should be equipped
with the appropriate cable or the dealer should know what you need.

IMO it's a good idea to rather get a second international adapter
from US to european standards instead of bying one of those
travelling sets from Apple for your PowerBook. It's more versatile,
less expensive and you also can use this adapter for other devices.
You could also get an extension cord with several US outlets and then
use one US to european adapter.

> As a related issue… if anyone knows of the best and (if possible)
> cheapest way to get a cell phone that works in all those countries,
> please make suggestions.

As far as the different GSM standards are of issue you'll have to
have a phone which is capable of 900 and 1800 MHz (dual band) to get
full coverage or choice of providers. This would give you the
opportunity to use roaming services of all mobile phone provider in
France, Italy and Germany AFAIK. You probably have to talk to your
mobile phone provider what kind of roaming services you're able to
use with your current contract in case you want to go online using
your mobile (and paying a fortune for WAP/GPRS/UMTS-based internet
services).

The cheapest way to use mobile phone services in different countries
is to buy a prepaid phone card for your mobile in those countries
respectively. Of course you'll get a new number but doing calls or
being called is *much* cheaper. You have to know beforehand about
your calling habits to get an idea if the bill fits.

Enjoy your time in Europe,
Michael



 

on 2/2/06 10:16 AM, Mark Hurvitz at rmarknisus.com wrote:

> I am told:
>
>> There is a 12V cigarette lighter in the camper. When plugged in to
>> external power you'll have 230V in the camper too.
>
> Understanding this is not my strong suit. I will have my PowerBook G4
> and expect to keep notes and update my personal Web site while en
> route. Other than finding local WiFi hot spots, I don't think the
> updating will be a problem. My concern (and the lack of my knowledge)
> is: what do I need to get to make sure I can plug my PowerBook's
> power source into the outlets provided in the van?
>
> As a related issueŠ if anyone knows of the best and (if possible)
> cheapest way to get a cell phone that works in all those countries,
> please make suggestions.

Mark:

I was once the proud owner of a Westfalia which took us to 49 states and all
the provinces of Canada. Happy travels.


1. When not parked for the night, you have the same access in the van that
you have on an airplane. There is a cigarette lighter socket providing 12V
DC into which you can plug an adapter.

You can buy an inverter, which will convert that 12V DC to 110AC and then
plug the standard power cord into that, but this is really wasting energy
and causing (minimal global) heat loss. No need to do this. What this allows
though is that inside the van you can use "normal" AC things using this
inverter while driving. You definitely don't want to use hi wattage things
like space heaters using this inverter.

2. When parked, many rest stops and camping parks have outlets that you plug
the van into. There is a socket on the side of the van for this. You "plug
in" the van. Then, inside the van, there are standard AC outlets, just like
in your house. These outlets are "dead" if the van is not parked and plugged
in.

Hope this helps...
Kevin

***********************************************************************
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inRESONANCE ... Ideas that resonate | CMS-based websites for K-12
kevininresonance.com | Admin database solutions
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413-587-0236x13 FSA Member since 1994


 

Your advisers are clearly americans.

While living in Europe I can assure you that using a mobile in
different countries will cost you a lot. Buying a prepaid card is not
really an option since you use the 20 euro in a minimum of time.
If you plan to stay in one country for a longer period it might be a
good idea to buy a local simcard for your type of cellphone. Anyway
it will be pricy always to make a call to the US.
There is maybe a good option to use SKYPE for phoning from you
computer.
Many towns in the civilised areas have internet cafés, where you can
plug in you laptop. I did that in Australia and that worked fine for me.
There is another thing. Many countries have special services for all
those foreigners that work here. You might give that field also a look.

If you visit The Hague in Holland , Be my guest to use an Apple in my
home. I would like to show you around even in Holland, but that is
only a small country of course.
Of course it is the most beautiful of Europe, but that is cause I
live there all my life.

I hope this will be of any help for you

Jaap

Mark Hurvitz wrote:
>> There is a 12V cigarette lighter in the camper. When plugged in to
>> external power you'll have 230V in the camper too.

> what do I need to get to make sure I can plug my PowerBook's power
> source into the outlets provided in the van?

Apart from Michael and Kevin's remarks: Just about every European
country has its own design of power plug.

Here's an overview:
<http://traveloasis.com/international-plug-adapters.html>

I see that the bwcampers company is Dutch, so I assume their campers use
Dutch-standard plugs.
These use the WA-9 design, so you'll need an adapter that converts this
to the plug on your Powerbook adapter.

The cable that connects the camper to external power should be included
with the camper. There is a European standard plug for these (CEE 17),
but not all campsites use these yet. Ask bwcampers if conversion plugs
for this come with the camper.




Harro de Jong

On Feb 3, 2006, at 8:24 AM, Jaap Cost Budde wrote:

> Of course it is the most beautiful of Europe, but that is cause I
> live there all my life.

Well, no...that's because it *is*. ;-)

   --John (who worked for a Dutchman at NCR (US) for quite a while--
last I heard he was worldwide director of software development at
Phillips Lamp)

> Just about every European country has its own design of power plug.
Hey, it's not _that_ bad. ;)

Anyway, one of my favorite accessories I always carry in my PowerBook
bag is a power socket adapter by Belkin, which supports all of the
major socket varietes you will find, not just the European ones.

<http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?
Merchant_Id=&Section_Id=201473&pcount=&Product_Id=135430>

Jochen.

--
A Polytrope's Musings <http://www.polytropia.com/musings>
Polytropic Flickr Pix <http://www.flickr.com/photos/polytropia>

>My wife has a sabbatical coming. She and I will be traveling in
>Europe in a VW Westfalia camper for three months (early March through
>mid May). We expect to be camping (among other places) in France,
>Italy, Poland and Germany.

I think all power relevant things are already discussed.
My family and I also often travel around in a camper with our
powerbook. As a cheap navigation aid, we added a GPS mouse via USB
and route 66 to our powerbook. Now we have detailed charts for whole
europe and a (not perfect but workable) navigation system for around
200 US $.


Best regards,
Gernot Hecht
--
www.wollemond.de - Der unpolitische Filz ;-)

Dear Friends and Masters,

Many thanks to everyone for your suggestions.

However, one detail that many of you miss is that I need the
connection *IN THE VAN*. This means that we will not *need an
adapter* for each country in Europe. I need to (if possible) verify
that I have what I need for *in the van*. The van will connect to
power at each campground at which we stay.

>> When plugged in to external power you'll have 230V in the camper too.

Does anyone have an authoritative answer for this?

And, thank you to those who have offered to show us around when we're
in the neighborhood. I'll be in touch privately.


`//rite On!
,\\ark Hurvitz
Vice President for Communications
Nisus Software Inc.
<http://www.nisus.com>

Mark--

I'll try to post a concise summary of what everyone's said and how it will affect you. (Pretty much everything you need has been said, but it's all a little confusing.)

POWER IN THE VAN:

1. Power while moving:

-Cigarette lighter will provide 12v power

-Two options for power:

-Get a power adapter for your PowerBook that plugs into cigarette lighters. I think Kensington, among others, makes them.

-Get a power inverter. This will convert the cigarette lighter's 12v into household 110v and provide a standard U.S.-style power plug, which you can then plug your PowerBook's normal adapter in to.

2. Power while parked:

-The van should have a plug outside of it which will plug into a power plug at campsites. When this is plugged in, there will be plugs in the van which are then active. (The power will be 220 or 230 volts, but don't worry--your PowerBook adapter will handle this.) The problem is: the plugs will probably not fit the two flat blade prongs we're used to in the U.S. As Harro de Jong pointed out, they will probably be Dutch plugs if the camper is Dutch, but you'll need to check with BWCampers to be sure. To be safe, you could get Apple's World Power Kit, which comes with adapters of nearly every type, and then you can use whichever one that fits.

CELL PHONE USAGE:

There are several options:

1. Obtain a "world phone" with international roaming from your U.S. cell provider.

-Pros: Keep your same number for incoming calls. Easy setup.

-Cons: VERY expensive. Airtime is several dollars per minute, and the phone will probably cost you as well.

2. Subscribe to cell service in Europe.

-Pros: Probably the most economical IF you're staying in one country. Not too difficult.

-Cons: not as flexible and still expensive if you're roaming in another country. Issues with subscriber billing, credit checks, etc., may be an issue. May need to purchase phone, although this may be subsidized by the carrier.

3. You can use a prepaid SIM card with either your existing GSM phone--if it's compatible--or a new GSM phone. This needs a little more explanation.

-If you're currently subscribed in the U.S. with Cingular or T-Mobile, your phone MAY have the technology (GSM) to be used overseas. Either before you depart (through a service like Telestial) or after you arrive (by going into a mobile phone store), you can buy a prepaid SIM card and pop that card into your GSM phone (the SIM card is usually located under your phone's battery.)

-There are a couple of things to watch out for with this. First, your phone may only be a dual-band phone, in which case it will only work in the U.S. It may be a tri-band phone, in which case it will work in the U.S. and some foreign countries, Or, it may be a quad-band phone (many Motorolas are), and will work everywhere in the world. Second, your provider may “SIM lock” your phone so that it will only work with that provider’s SIM cards. Here, you have three options. You can plead with your provider to SIM unlock your phone (tell them you just need to use it overseas for a few months), you can see if you can unlock it yourself, or you can send it to an outfit that can unlock them like The Travel Insider. Help for the last two options can be found at http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/unlockingfaq.htm.

-If your phone is NOT tri- or quad-band, or your phone is through Verizon, Sprint, or another non-GSM provider, then you’ll need to purchase one. Again, if you have T-Mobile or Cingular, you can probably purchase a tri- or quad-band phone from them, although you’ll need to still see about SIM-unlocking it as I mentioned above. If you don’t, or if you want to get a SIM-unlocked phone, you can buy one from an independent distributor like Telestial. Be warned, though, that these will be much more expensive than ones that Cingular or T-Mobile can sell you, as independent distributors do not subsidize the cost of cell phones like providers do. Once you’ve done that, then you can purchase a prepaid SIM card ahead of time, or you can get one when you get to Europe.

When I began looking for cell phone options for my trip to Australia last summer, I relied heavily on information from Telestial. Their Web site was most helpful, and as such I decided to give them my business and buy a prepaid SIM card for Optus through them. I was lucky in that my GSM phone at the time, a Motorola V400, was both quad-band and SIM-unlocked (my cell provider, Dobson/Cellular One, does not practice SIM-locking), and so it was hassle-free to switch the SIM card in when I landed in Sydney and make phone calls. I can also vouch for The Travel Insider: a friend recently gave me a Motorola V551 that was branded as a Cingular phone. In order to use it with my Cellular One service, I shipped it to The Travel Insider, and for $25, it now works with my Cellular One service.

To look up this information with Telestial, check out the following pages:

http://www.telestial.com/faq_gsm_phones.php

http://www.telestial.com/sim_cards.php (links to country-specific prepaid cards. There are also prepaid SIM cards that are designed for multiple countries: check them out. They’re a few inches down on this page.)

http://www.telestial.com/view_product.php?PRODUCT_ID=LSIM-NL01&; (a prepaid card for The Netherlands, in case you start out there)

Also, check out this overview at Wikitravel: http://wikitravel.org/en/Telephone_service_for_travel#Mobile_Telephones

All right, so much for being concise, but I hope this helps. I apologize for rambling, but it’s late and I wanted to get this posted now—otherwise, I’d save it and forget to post it until after you left.

Take care and I hope everything works out for you! Enjoy Europe—everything you’ll encounter will be wonderful and new!

Chris

Having lived in Europe for years and traveled with a VW camper, my experience has been thus: (Ditto USA.)

>>>When plugged in to external power you'll have 230V in the camper too.
>
>Does anyone have an authoritative answer for this?
>
Hy,

that depends on the camper. But I don't know any camper, who hasn't
at least one power outlet for 230 V (which is only active, when you
have 230 V on the camp ground).


Best regards,
Gernot
--
www.wollemond.de - Der unpolitische Filz ;-)

Mark,

Continuing the communication side of this thread, depending on budget considerations, and on the assumption that all the countries of the Eurozone operate similarly to the UK...



INCOMING CALLS There is no charge for incoming calls (in all of Europe?), so buying a 'pay-as-you-go' mobile phone sim card in each one would cover you for receiving calls. You just leave/update an answer phone message on your US number as to the current Euro number folks should call.

Considering the short periods you are likely spending in each country, the advantages of longer mobile phone contracts would not outweigh the start-up costs. IF, on the other hand, you have friends in each country (country dependant), ask them if they have a spare mobile phone on a yearly contract, and refund them the final bill.



TEXT Text messaging is universal (outside of the US(?)) - if the phone is a mobile, it receives text messages. It is not a matter of whether or not that option has been subscribed to. In fact here in the UK you can now text message land/fixed lines - the message is read to you by a voice (amusingly, the present voice is that of an earlier "Doctor Who" actor). Texting on a pay-as-you-go contract is usually fairly priced - ex. in the UK, that's around 0.17$ each.

For your US contacts that might wish such succinct exchanges, but which don't have the text messaging option, there is the very efficient and able piece of Mac/PC software/widget "SmsMac" by Alco Blom. On the Mac it allows for texting to pretty much anywhere in the world directly from the Addressbook. Cost per message is 0.10 Euro (about 0.10$?). Wonderful stuff.



OUTGOING CALLS For then calling/talking back out of Europe (Skype being an option if you have a connection), and in particular to the US, I would suggest lightening the cost by using a separate contract with one of the bulk resellers or callback operators, from the nearest callbox. Some even allow overrides on mobile phones (though maybe less-so with pay-as-you-go contracts). These folk buy bulk minutes on the various networks and you end up with say a 2 cent/min call back to the US.

A tad inconvenient I realise, but a whole lot cheaper.



Well, that's what I would do, as I'd rather spend my hard earned pennies sitting with a coffee.

Hope it helps, Marc

>> When plugged in to external power you'll have 230V in the camper too.
>
> Does anyone have an authoritative answer for this?

Have been to Sweden in a camper two years ago. When you plug the camper into
an outlet on the Campground you have 230 V at the marked outlets inside the
camper. This oughta be true for the whole of (western) Europe. For the
outlets inside the camper you should be fine with a so called "Euro plug".
It's a plug designed to fit in most of the differnt European outlets.

I, too, had bought a converter to plug into the 12 V cigarette lighter to
get 230 V when on the road. I didn't use it once...

Udo

I know that Mark already said he wouldn't need adapters to plug his computer in in each country, but I figured I'd pass this tidbit along.

I came across a reference in Gary Leff's View From The Wing blog to a cool wizard offered on Magellan's Web site. (Magellan sells travel-related gear.) It'll figure out what you need.

Check it out at http://www.magellans.com/store/util/ElecWiz?

Other suggestions for cheaper phone usage, expanding on what Marc said:

1. Have people call you. Pretty much all overseas mobile phone services have free incoming calls. (They do this because calls to cell phones cost more per minute than calls to landlines.) Downside: expensive and inconvenient for those who need to call you. Also, doesn't help you when you need to call them, unless you call them and tell them to call you back.

2. Callback systems, like http://www.kallback.com/. With these systems, you call a US-based number and let it ring once and hang up (so you don't pay for the call). Then, it calls you back, presents you with a dial tone, and you place your call as if your phone were in the U.S. This will work with your mobile phone, too. Rates are typically far cheaper than dialing directly with your cell. Downside: slightly more inconvenient than dialing directly.

3. Prepaid calling cards. Go to Costco or Sam's Club and get their prepaid calling card from AT&T (Sam's) or MCI (Costco). The rates are dirt cheap: domestic U.S. calls are 2.47 cents, and international calls--both from the U.S. and to the U.S. are far cheaper than dialing directly. I think calls from Australia to the U.S. are less than 20 cents per minute, and Germany's down in the 15 cent per minute range. Calls from the U.S. to overseas are even cheaper--sometimes less than 10 cents per minute. Much better than the $1-2 per minute your cell carrier wants. Downside: you'll first need to dial a toll-free number and enter a PIN before dialing the number you're trying to reach.

In my experience and research, phone calls in Europe are like drink refills: there's no such thing as free. Unlimited calling plans, like MCI's Neighborhood plan (if it's still around) are unheard of. On a good mobile contract, the per-minute rate is far higher than on ones in the U.S. Even on landlines in private residences, local calls can be several cents per minute.

For example, I just looked at Cingular: their best nationwide plans work out to 3.3 cents per minute--that's figured off of 1500 minutes for $49.99, no long-distance or roaming charges across all 50 states. In contrast, Vodafone in the UK's best plan works out to 13.5 cents per minute, and that covers an area the size of the state of Oregon.

And since Europeans are glued to their mobiles even more than American teen girls...well, now I know why text messaging is much more popular there.

Check out http://www.ricksteves.com/plan/tips/mobilephones.htm for a well-written repeat of the information provided in this thread.

On 12 Feb 2006, at 23:08 , Chris Luth wrote:
> 2. Callback systems, like http://www.kallback.com/. With these
> systems, you call a US-based number and let it ring once and hang
> up (so you don't pay for the call). Then, it calls you back,
> presents you with a dial tone, and you place your call as if your
> phone were in the U.S. This will work with your mobile phone, too.
> Rates are typically far cheaper than dialing directly with your
> cell. Downside: slightly more inconvenient than dialing directly.

I have some limited experience with this as my step-mom used to use
this system when calling from Mexico. The rates were very good,
especially when compared to Mexico's LD carrier which is still
charging DOLLARS per minute. It's about as inconvenient as using a
calling card, so really, not a big deal.

One other thing you might want to consider, though not for
cellphones, is a service like Vonage. If you take a POTS phone and
your Vonage router with you, anywhere you have Internet access you
also have your home phone. (Not sure if you need a POTS phone or not,
since I know nothing about POTS connections in Europe).

--
ワシ�上陸��

Chris Luth wrote:

> In my experience and research, phone calls in Europe are like drink
> refills: there's no such thing as free. Unlimited calling plans,
> like MCI's Neighborhood plan (if it's still around) are unheard of.
> On a good mobile contract, the per-minute rate is far higher than
> on ones in the U.S. Even on landlines in private residences, local
> calls can be several cents per minute.

Unlimited calling plans are not unknown in Europe. At least one re-
seller offers unlimited phone calls within one country. Currently I
can pay 4p/ call (no time limit) to call any landline within the UK;
until recently it was even cheaper.

And more than one company offers plans with free calls for up to an
hour (not quite unlimited though!)

>
> For example, I just looked at Cingular: their best nationwide plans
> work out to 3.3 cents per minute--that's figured off of 1500
> minutes for $49.99, no long-distance or roaming charges across all
> 50 states. In contrast, Vodafone in the UK's best plan works out to
> 13.5 cents per minute, and that covers an area the size of the
> state of Oregon.


The size of the state is irrelevant! How many numbers can you call in
Oregon? Calls within the UK can put you in contact with more than 50
million people.

And I wouldn't be surprised if the Vodafone tariff includes a phone
which costs next to nothing.

Moral: you can't compare phone tariffs between the USA and Europe,
because the setup is so different.

Percy Mett
London
England

As for the 220-230V, if you are a bit handy and comfortable fitting a plug to an extension cord, I suggest bringing an extension cord with several US sockets and replacing the plug with a European one once you get here. You can buy a plug in any hardware store and it won't cost you more than a few Euro's. If you cut off the plug and strip the wires bare before you leave the US, you'll only need a small screwdriver to fit the new plug.

The mobile phone thing is a bit more complex. Every country in Europe has their own mobile phone networks and their normal rates apply only within the country. Once you get out of their home country your mobile phone can still work (if your contract supports roaming and the phone supports the European bands) but the home rates no longer apply. Instead you will be charged the roaming rates, which are usually a lot higher. Another thing you must be aware of is, that, when roaming, receiving a call is no longer free. The caller pays a local charge, from the country he/she is in to the border, and the rest of the call is charged to the receiver at the roaming rate. For example, if you have a contract with a Dutch network and you are travelling in Germany, someone calling you from The Netherlands will pay the local rate for mobile phones in The Netherlands and you will pay the roaming rate for Germany to The Netherlands. In the same way, you will pay for a call you receive from someone in the US if you were to use your US based mobile phone here in Europe. Because of this, many people use SMS to communicate, because receiving an SMS is free, wherever you are. Of course sending an SMS will still cost you, but usually a lot less than a phone call. Because of this, it is very difficult to give any specific advice. It depends, amongst other things, on where you will be travelling, how long you will be staying in one country, how much you will be calling others, how often others will be calling you and how much hassle you are willing to put up with.

Hopes this doesn't put you off. Just enjoy your trip. Before mobile phones, we used to be 'unreachable' while travelling. Never bothered anyone. :-)

Frans Moquette