Tactile Pro Keyboard

At 2:47 PM -0800 4/1/04, Chik wrote:
>But I must say I have gotten used to using PC keyboards on my USB
>Macs. The article seems to imply that all newer keyboards (including
>PC ones), use a lower cost clone of the keyswitch. Is this right? Or
>are there Mac compatible PC USB keyboards that use the Alps
>mechanism? I understand the appeal of a Mac-specific keyboard -- I
>like my Logitech Elite, but the Logitech software is underwhelming
>-- but there is much more variety if PC keyboard idiosyncrasies can
>be tolerated. By this I mean installing 3rd party software, and
>having a Windows "Start", "menu" and "alternate" keys on the
>keyboard.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the excellent Y-Mouse Adapter
USB from PI Engineering. It adapts any PS/2 mouse and keyboard to
USB, and includes firmware modes for Mac keymapping; there are
several mappings to choose from. If you have a PC keyboard you love,
you can use it with your Mac.
http://www.piengineering.com/ymouse/whym08.php

I routinely use this adapter when attaching a USB Mac to a PS/2 KVM.
Set and forget.

(In addition, Kinesis uses PI Engineering's circuitry for their
Mac/PC USB keyboard.)

--
Andrew Laurence
atlaurenuci.edu

Paul Durrant wrote, Apr 2, 2004 6:17 pm:

The original Commodore PET was appalling - small square keys in a rectangular layout. Yes - it was QWERTY, but the rows were vertically aligned.

I grew to like that "Block Qwerty" layout. The 'standard' cant of the key columns, becomes extreme, if one must sit to the left of a 'standard' keyboard. Look closely at an old manual typewriter, to see the origin of the 'standard' key-col cant.

David D.

> It seems to me that it's the tactile feel of a KB that makes it seem
> to be a good one. The original IBM PC keyboard, while annoyingly loud,
> did have a nice _feel_ to it. If you rested fingers on keys and didn't
> feel the characteristic 'snap', you hadn't mistyped a character.
>
> I was dismayed, in the 1980's, when computer keyboards had to have a
> keyclick sound. That was useless, especially in an office environment,
> when there were a few of them in a small area. At least,
> (speaker-produced) keyclick was optional. I remember one keyboard that
> had a mechanical clicker inside, to produce keyclick.

I've been using computer keyboards as far back as the early 70s.
Keypunches, DEC TTY, various hobby things, etc... In the 80s I did a LOT of
work with Wang Labs WP systems and mini-computers. I really grew to like
their keyboards. They were quiet but had a tactile feel so you knew when
you registered a keystroke. DEC had similar keyboards that lots of folks
liked at the time. I'd say that most of the two biggest brands used for
Word Processing at the time were DEC and Wang. (Wang OWNED the legal
market. No ifs ands or buts.)

Then the IBM PC showed up with it's loud click clack and feels like you
have to hammer the keys and never mind that some people near by need to
quiet to think. In a few years everyone called it the best. Well not
everyone but since them majority of users using it were new to keyboards of
any quality and the PC was pushing the minicomputers off the map, it won.

In my opinion we all like what we used a lot of at first. Because we got
used to it. Very few of us used a variety of keyboards, especially at the
same time.

On Thursday, April 1, 2004, at 05:47 PM, LuKreme wrote:

> On Mar 31, 2004, at 5:17 AM, Bob Williams wrote:
>> (Talk about bad keyboards - those Commodores had the worst!)
>
> No, that would be the Atari 400. <comic guy voice>Worst. Keyboard.
> Ever.</comic guy voice>

The horror, the horror...

Anyone remember the IBM "chicklet" keyboard that came with the PS/2,
circa 1983-85? It, and the computer, were purposely designed to be
difficult to use, and was probably one of the worst marketing disasters
on record - the market research predicted the product was doomed.
Though they had a great ad campaign featuring an actor imitating
Charlie Chaplin's Little Tramp, it was so bad it didn't help.

No way that baby could compete with the original Mac.

Marilyn

Various authors:

> nice - I especially like the special characters and symbols
> at your fingertips - how about a Dvorak version now?

Not really necessary. I had letter stickies on my PowerBook ($2.95 at
Office Depot) for three months while I hunted for characters, then I
didn't need them anymore. Main reason it MIGHT be useful is that, even
after 8 years on Dvorak, I still can't find a key sometimes when typing
one-handed -- it's all muscle memory.

> I'd have to
> put the Sinclair ZX-80/ZX-81 in the top running for that spot, though
> admittedly I never used one for very long. :)

My first computer (actually, the TS-1000); I don't want to tell you how
many hours I spent on that thing, but suffice to say that I was in 9th
grade and had no life. The *brilliant* thing about that keyboard was
that every key had 5 or 6 functions, they were all printed on the keys
in a logical fashion, and they were context-sensitive. Hit "P" after
entering a line number, and it entered the PRINT keyword. Not only did
it make typing *almost* fast, it also greatly reduced syntactical
errors in BASIC -- you had to go out of your way to mess that up.

> If it was on an IBM selectric
> from a legal secretary who could far outpace everything that wasn't
> purely
> electronic

My mom could do 120 wpm on those things. Absolutely insane. I can
briefly crack 90, but I've never heard of anyone going as fast on
modern keyboards as her generation could.

What's interesting is that there are a few obsolesced technologies that
are better than what we're using. I can record a speech with a dozen
gizmos I carry with me, but I still can't get a transcript as well as I
could if I knew shorthand.

Best,
Jeff

That would be the original PCjr, not the PS/2. I've still got a revised PCjr with a "normal" keyboard sitting in my basement. The supposed rationale for the original "chiclet" keyboard was to allow custom overlays for particular programs, especially for educational use, though of course everyone believed the true reason was to limit cannibalization of IBM PC sales.

Albert

In article <F9C1E2F3-876F-11D8-90DA-000A95AFB780nyc.rr.com>,
 Marilyn Matty <mmattynyc.rr.com> wrote:

> Anyone remember the IBM "chicklet" keyboard that came with the PS/2,
> circa 1983-85?

As I recall, the PS/2 series had normal keyboards. I seem to remember
the low-end Model 25 coming with some sort of simiplified, smaller
version, but I think it still had normal keys. The rest of the line
definitely had normal keyboards, including both the keys and the modern
f-keys-on-the-top layout. In fact, the few that my dad bought for his
company came with the famous Model 101 keyboards that have been
mentioned.

I also don't recall the PS/2 series being hard to use at all, nor being
developed or marketed that way. IBM did, however, try to make them a
technological leap ahead of the clones by stepping away from many
standards, and that's what hurt them. For instance, it used MicroChannel
slots instead of ISA. And you know how many PC keyboards now use a PS/2
connector? Guess which computer broke with the old standard to originate
that :-).

The IBM with the chicklet keyboard was the PC jr. It was replaced with a
more normal version in a later generation.

Regards,
Bob
--
Visit our web site to learn about our web design and graphic arts
services, and to download high-quality freeware and shareware software
and desktop pictures. - <http://www.trivectus.com/>

Good article, a couple of comments:

Personally, I prefer a quiet keyboard. All that clicking is incredibly annoying. living in a small apartment and working at night, quiet keys help my girlfirend sleep.

[You're not supposed to be typing when your girlfriend is asleep. ;-) But yes, in that situation, I could see quiet keys being important. -Adam]

I liked the old aircraft carrier Apple Extended Keyboard, but since I switched from desktop Macs to PowerBooks I MUCH prefer a laptop keyboard. When my old 3d party purple USB keyboard died, I stumbled across the Macally IceKey, which is essentially an extended keyboard, with all the new Mac volume, screen brightness and eject keys, but it uses laptop style scissor switches. It's great! Quiet and responsive. Several friends have bought them after using it.

http://macally.com/spec/usb/input_device/icekey.html

I love the idea of the extended character set printed on the keys. This makes so much sense. Years ago I'd bought a set of stick-on key labels at a MacWorld Expo that had all the extended characters. I hate having to use things like PopChar to find extended characters, but that's what we're stuck with at this point. It would be great to find something similar.

From: mengoxon·yahoo.com <mengoxon·yahoo.com> Message 29 of 43 in thread Date: 01-Apr-2004 22:47:00 GMT

nice keyboard, but what I think is more impressive than the mechanical switches is the: "Special characters and symbols at your fingertips."

Why does Apple not have that?

[I suspect because it's non-standard and implies complexity. -Adam]

Not only is it non standard and does it add complexity it doesn’t allow for the fact that some people need to have an additional language on the keyboard (e.g. Japanese, Korean, Hebrew, Arabic, Russian). It would make such an additional language completely unfeasible.

In fact, once when on a business trip to Israel I saw this one keyboard in a printshop that had English, Hebrew, Arabic and Russian characters. Each in a different color. I was told the keys had been custom engraved.

[I'm not sure how it's related. If you wanted to use custom stickers to cover up the Option-characters printed on the keycaps, you could. -Adam]

How is the Tactile Pro Keyboard different from the Kensington StudioBoard Mechanical Keyboard (MAC) - Model number 64352? It looks identical to the Kensington model and seems to have a similar description mechanically. I bought this keyboard about 10 months ago at the 2003 NY MacWorld show and it still available from the Kensington site - about $90 ~ 100. It certainly is a great keyboard with a solid clickety feel; since I am using a B&W G3, I appreciated the power-on key located above the function keys.*

[I'm not sure what the differences are, other than the Option-characters printed on the Tactile Pro's keycaps, though Kensington may be sending me one of theirs to test. -Adam]

Paul

Paul Taub wondered:

How is the Tactile Pro Keyboard different from the Kensington StudioBoard Mechanical Keyboard (MAC) - Model number 64352?

In addition to the characters on the keycaps, as Adam mentioned, the StudioBoard has an oddly shaped (and located) Return key, whereas the Tactile Pro has just what you'd expect.

On the other hand, the StudioBoard's volume/mute/eject keys require no driver (even on Jaguar).

I was really happy with my StudioBoard until I found out about the Tactile Pro. (Well, I am still happy with it, but I'd really like a proper Return key.)

Joe

==

Joe Kissell
Curator of Interesting Things
Interesting Thing of the Day <http://www.itotd.com/>

circa 30-Mar-2004 12:52:00 GMT, LuKreme <kremelskreme.com> wrote:

It's too bad they didn't swap the Caps Lock and Control keys while they were at it. Every Unix geek would cheer! (and is there a more pointless key on the keyboard than the Caps Lock? I don't think so. It's certainly the CLEANEST key on my keyboard, since it is only ever touched by accident.

Run, do not walk:

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/pfuca-store/haphackeylit1.html

I swear by this keyboard. Of course, you should note before reading further that I am not a touch typist. I type faster than most touch typists, but I am not one of them.

Anyway, not only does this keyboard place the control key correctly, but it has *no* CAPS LOCK key. Or at least no real one; it's virtualized by means of the fn key. I have yet to have an urge to engage it after years of use, and since it's not there, I have never engaged it accidentally, either. Sweet!

As well, the action is comparable to the Extended I keep in the closet as a reference. (Yes, I really keep one as a reference and I really did drag it out just now for a fresh comparison for this email. I'm that sick.) If anything, the action on the keyboard I'm using now is a little stiffer than my old Extended. I have no idea what mechanical tech is used, but it has that good old feel.

Note that this keyboard is a trade-off; it is not full-size, it has no numeric keypad, it marks the command key with an open diamond and the option key with "Alt", and keys such as Home and Page Down are virtualized via fn... But none of these things bother me because the degree of my anti-CAPS LOCK passion is so extreme, and I wasn't using those weirdo keys anyway. (Use the *mouse*, people; it's a Macintosh!)

I would definitely try a keyboard like the Tactile Pro if there were a model without CAPS LOCK.

David Ross wrote:

> In my opinion we all like what we used a lot of at first. Because we
> got used to it. Very few of us used a variety of keyboards, especially
> at the same time.

Not me, I learned to touch type in high school on a manual typewriter.
I still bang the living heck out of any keyboard I use. I'm pretty
happy with all my keyboards at the moment. The PowerBook G4 keyboard is
nice (other than the idiotic idea of making the "special" functions like
brightness up/down and mute the default key, forcing you to hit Fn + F1
to do a normal F1 key). At work I use a microsoft natural keyboard (one
of the split keyboard models), but it was the first edition of the
keyboard so it has real switches and big keys made from sturdy plastic.
The current model feels flimsy and the key switches aren't nearly as nice.

[A quick tip I just learned while editing the 1.2 version of Matt Neuburg's "Take Control of Customizing Panther" ebook: in the Keyboard & Mouse preference pane, you can now control whether the F keys invoke their special functions when pressed normally, or if you must press Fn first to change volume, etc. -Adam]

Kevin

On 2004 Apr, 07, at 18:51, hebmacmango.com wrote:

Not only is it non standard and does it add complexity it doesn’t allow for the fact that some people need to have an additional language on the keyboard (e.g. Japanese, Korean, Hebrew, Arabic, Russian). It would make such an additional language completely unfeasible.

In fact, once when on a business trip to Israel I saw this one keyboard in a printshop that had English, Hebrew, Arabic and Russian characters. Each in a different color. I was told the keys had been custom engraved.

[I'm not sure how it's related. If you wanted to use custom stickers to cover up the Option-characters printed on the keycaps, you could. -Adam]

My favorite source for these tools has always been:

<http://hooleon.com/>

They've been friendly and helpful, and in business a long time. I've used overlays on my old aircraft carrier keyboard. The stickers were still in good condition seven years after application (when I retired the keyboard).

`//rite On! ,\\ark Hurvitz Vice President for Communications Nisus Software Inc. <http://www.nisus.com>

I'm not sure how it's related. If you wanted to use custom stickers to cover up the Option-characters printed on the keycaps, you could. -Adam

Sure you could... The problem is that stickers are a PITA to apply... They don't always stay stuck... Having all those extra symbols on the keys doesn't leave much space for yet more symbols...

Actually, Apple's own multi language keyboards were always great in this respect... Properly engraved... Never faded...

My favorite source for these tools has always been - Mark Hurvitz

I have fumbled extensively with overlays and labels... It never worked for me... If I need for example a Hebrew/English keyboard I simply either have it custom engraved or I get it through a friend who purchases it from Yeda...

BTW, any news when Nisus Writer Express will do RTL?!... It is the only reason I still have to go into Classic :-(

--- begin forwarded text
From: Joseph Coates <jmcoatesmchsi.com>

It should be noted that the Tactile Pro Keyboard volume and eject
button worked right out of the box with no driver installed on a new
PowerBook G4 with the latest OS X.

[Right. A driver (included) is necessary for Mac OS X 10.2 and
earlier, and they're just about to post the similar drive for Mac OS
9. -Adam]

Also, this keyboard is very useful for graphic design students (and
designers). It shows many of the special characters that designers
need to access on a regular basis when setting type. Where is the Yen
sign? - option y. The ellipsis mark? - option ;.

This keyboard shows what is normally hidden.

BTW, does anyone know of an OS X "extension" - or whatever it is
called in OS X - that turns off the caps lock key entirely? This key
is a total nuisance and I never use it.

I had something in OS 9 that turned the key off entirely. It was joy!

[uControl does this - it was designed initially to remap Control to
Caps Lock. -Adam]

<http://gnufoo.org/ucontrol/ucontrol.html>

--- end forwarded text

Bob Williams wrote:
> And of course, vendors have long put out keyboards with legends
> targeted at specific programs, ranging from Lotus 1-2-3 and
> WordPerfect back in the day to Final Cut Pro now.
>
> So while the key legends weren't a brilliant new idea of Matias', they
> were a good pickup of a very useful old one. And a pickup that I've
> long wished Apple itself would do.

And one developer took it to the ultimate end with completely
replaceable keysets. Not just keyboard overlays, actual new keys, new
key positions and key commands. The layout of each keyboard is stored
in the keyboard inserts which the keyboard base reads when you insert
the keyset.

Mainly sold as a gaming keyboard they do have inserts for Microsoft
Office, PhotoShop, Dreamweaver and others.

<http://www.ideazon.com/>

On Apr 9, 2004, at 2:00 PM, Kevin van Haaren wrote:

> [A quick tip I just learned while editing the 1.2 version of Matt
> Neuburg's "Take Control of Customizing Panther" ebook: in the Keyboard
> & Mouse preference pane, you can now control whether the F keys invoke
> their special functions when pressed normally, or if you must press Fn
> first to change volume, etc. -Adam]

Thank you, Adam, very useful to know. FYI for those of you using
FnSwitch to do the same thing, apparently FnSwitch hijacks the Fn
system enough that a boot cycle is necessary to use the new internal
system.

Best,
Jeff

About the Tactile Pro Keyboard...

Very encouraging to read real good keyboards are still made.

However and with all honour and credits for Tactile Pro, it is not the
first one in this.

Overhere in Europe, about a year or four ago, out of the blue appeared
very nice 'clacky' keyboards, USB, for Apple Mac only, made by KNP
Technologies, designed in Switserland, made in Taiwan.
Selling prices would/could vary from occasion to occasion and reseller
to reseller, between the equivalent of about 40 to 80 US Dollars.
Available in graphite/grey and the keyboard lay-outs: 'International',
US, UK, French, German, Italian etc.
It sports Alps-keys, identical to the ones used in the famous Apple
Extended Keyboard II (I took both apart, just to make sure).
And indeed, the KNP typingfeeling was, and still is, very Extended
Keyboard II like, its size is, within a few millimeters or tenths of an
inch, identical to the Extended Keyboard II.

In the UK those KNP keyboards were sold by Lindy with the Lindy
brandbadge (that is, the name Lindy where otherwise KNP would be
printed).

The typenumbers (both KNP and Lindy): SMK-8112JU
One could perform a Google search on that....

With kind regards from Europe,

Feike Hoogenbos