Search for the ultimate keyboard

Choice number two, in case you're looking for something more like a laptop kd is this one.

http://www.smalldog.com/product/42527

Of the one you speak (hehe), I am now working on your number two. Love it. My typing speed has increased incredibly.

Paul Guinnessy:

--On 10/2/05 11:26 PM -0700 Paul Guinnessy wrote:

> There can only be one: The Tactile Pro keyboard. Best keyboard I've used
> in years.
>
> http://www.smalldog.com/product/12651708


I have a Tactile Pro, and love it EXCEPT....

I'm a reasonably fast typist, and it has at least three horrible phantom
key issues that I encounter on at least a daily basis. It drives me crazy
(though not yet crazy enough to go back to the Apple keyboard).

I have been promised a replacement from the next generation of TP keyboards
(which should have a different key matrix to eliminate those problems) but
it's been well over a year and the replacements have still not been
manufactured.

While I'm inclined to endorse the keyboard (more sales ==> next generation
produced sooner), this is a very real problem. If you encountered phantom
keys on the old Extended Keyboard II, you're likely to have similar
problems here.

Dave Scocca

Dave Scocca:

I'm a reasonably fast typist, and it has at least three horrible phantom key issues that I encounter on at least a daily basis. It drives me crazy (though not yet crazy enough to go back to the Apple keyboard).

OK...I'll bite. What's a phantom key?

[Keys appear without corresponding physical keypress, I'm guessing. I occasionally get such behavior on my Kinesis keyboard. In my case it's a just-pressed key which repeats for no apparent reason. -Andrew]

--On 10/3/2005 11:30 AM -0700 BeeRich wrote:
>
> OK...I'll bite. What's a phantom key?
>
> [Keys appear without corresponding physical keypress, I'm guessing. I
> occasionally get such behavior on my Kinesis keyboard. In my case it's a
> just-pressed key which repeats for no apparent reason. -Andrew]

A keyboard is a matrix--each key sends a row signal and a column signal.
Think of the keys placed on a grid.

The problem is that when keys on three corners of a "square" are hit in
quick succession, the computer thinks the key on the fourth "corner" has
also been pressed. The goal in designing a keyboard is to arrange the
row/column matrix such that commonly used sequences do not sit on corners
of the same square in this way.

On the Tactile Pro, the combination S-I-O produces an unwanted "Q", as does
(I believe) U-L-D. The combination O-P-space produces a press on the caps
lock.

So I'll be typing along and I'll use the word stop AND SUDDENLY EVERYTHING
SHOWS UP IN ALL CAPS!

Or the time I sent them an email asking about the availability of the new
"versqion" of the keyboard.

Some of my IM correspondents have gotten into the habit of seeing the odd
"Q" show up here and there, and of seeing me suddenly start typing all caps.

Dave

 From what you describe, I'd say that the Macally IceKey is the
keyboard for you.

I've had one for several years and absolutely love it! it uses the
same scissor key mechanism that laptop keyboards use.
The only downside is that it requires a driver to activate the System
Audio Volume and Disk Eject keys. It's a beta and hasn't been
upgraded in three years, but, it works.
It's extremely quiet, so I can work late at night and not disturb my
girlfriend in out tiny manhattan apartment. I've had several friends
try my keyboard and run out and buy them.

• • • • •

Jeffrey Harris
NYC

On 10/3/05, Dave Scocca <davescocca.org> wrote:
> So I'll be typing along and I'll use the word stop AND SUDDENLY EVERYTHING
> SHOWS UP IN ALL CAPS!

OK, I'll byte, just how fast do you type Kimosabe?

--
<http://2blog.kreme.com/>

Dave Scocca wrote:

... On the Tactile Pro [keyboard], the combination S-I-O produces an unwanted "Q", as does
(I believe) U-L-D.  The combination O-P-space produces a press on the caps
lock.

So I'll be typing along and I'll use the word stop AND SUDDENLY EVERYTHING
SHOWS UP IN ALL CAPS!

The caps lock on both the standard and Bluetooth G5 (my first-ever Mac) keyboards is driving me nuts, since I frequently mash it when hitting adjacent keys.  At least on Windows, I'd get a beep notifying me of a change -- the laughable green light is invisible in my lighting situation.

On Windows keyboards, I simply removed the keytop, and on those rare occasions I needed caps lock, I simply pressed the key stem.  I'm told that's not possible on the Mac standard keyboards.

Do any? all? of the keyboard alternatives referred to here have removable keytops, and/or fog-horn blasts when the caps lock is activated?  WORD 6.0 for Windows 3.1 (3.1 !!) had options to make all selected text upper-case, lower-case, or toggled-case -- does Mac have anything comparable, so I don't have to constantly rekey?

(I tried interfacing my Windows keyboard and touchpad to 10.3, but found it very slow, and flaky).

Mike Williams,
refugee from 18-years-Windows-enslavement (but also running VPC 7 ... :-(

On or about 10/3/05 10:16 PM, thus spake "Jeffrey Harris" <gojiratiac.net>:

> the Macally IceKey... requires a driver to activate the System
> Audio Volume and Disk Eject keys

I have never installed that driver and I have never noticed that lack of any
functionality. (F12 ejects, and there's a menu item that adjusts system
volume.) I recommend *not* installing it, because you just never know. m.

--
matt neuburg, phd = matttidbits.com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
pantes anthropoi tou eidenai oregontai phusei
AppleScript: the Definitive Guide -
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571/somethingsbymatt
Take Control of Word 2004, Tiger, and more -
http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
Subscribe to TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com/

On or about 10/4/05 10:08 AM, thus spake "JMW" <j.williamsieee.org>:

> The caps lock on both the standard and Bluetooth G5 (my first-ever Mac)
> keyboards is driving me nuts

Under Tiger, you can turn off the caps lock key. m.

--
matt neuburg, phd = matttidbits.com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
pantes anthropoi tou eidenai oregontai phusei
AppleScript: the Definitive Guide -
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571/somethingsbymatt
Take Control of Word 2004, Tiger, and more -
http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
Subscribe to TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com/

> On Windows keyboards, I simply removed the keytop, and on those rare occasions
> I needed caps lock, I simply pressed the key stem. I'm told that's not
> possible on the Mac standard keyboards.
>
> Do any? all? of the keyboard alternatives referred to here have removable
> keytops, and/or fog-horn blasts when the caps lock is activated? WORD 6.0 for
> Windows 3.1 (3.1 !!) had options to make all selected text upper-case,
> lower-case, or toggled-case -- does Mac have anything comparable, so I don't
> have to constantly rekey?

You can disable to Caps Lock key with the "Keyboard and Mouse" System
Preferences. In the "Keyboard" pane there is a button call "Modifier
Keys...". Clicking it will bring up a list of modifier keys including the
Caps Lock key. You can set it to "No Action" and disable to Caps Lock.

Now that I have written all this, I remember where I got this tip -- TCO
Customizing Tiger, which says it all a lot more elegantly. This tip has been
a real blessing on my PB keyboard.

Ahteri


:----------------------------:

R. Ahteri Forcada-Lowrie
Ahteri [at] alumni [dot] ucsd [dot] edu

H: 608-772-3451
 

On 10/4/2005 10:08 AM, "JMW" wrote:
> On Windows keyboards, I simply removed the keytop, and on those rare occasions
> I needed caps lock, I simply pressed the key stem. I'm told that's not
> possible on the Mac standard keyboards.

I can report with confidence that you can remove key tops on the Tactile Pro
and still access the stems below :-)

<http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/09/helpless/index.php>

For me the "ultimate" keyboard is one that doesn't give me the
sensation of incipient carpal tunnel stress syndrome. Best solution
I've found so far is an Adesso Tru-Form keyboard.
http://www.adesso.com/products.asp

There is a Mac model at:
http://www.adesso.us/product_details.asp?dept%5Fid=107&pf%5Fid=KA33EKB%2D2100W

Now HERE is the ultimate keyboard, though, as yet, only a concept model:

http://www.artlebedev.com/portfolio/optimus/

I want it. Now.

Stephen Moye

Good morning,

On 4/10/05 at 3:19 PM -0700, Matt Neuburg <matttidbits.com> wrote:

>On or about 10/4/05 10:08 AM, thus spake "JMW" <j.williamsieee.org>:
>
>> The caps lock on both the standard and Bluetooth G5 (my first-ever Mac)
>> keyboards is driving me nuts
>
>Under Tiger, you can turn off the caps lock key. m.

That's a very handy tip, but when I select 'No Action' for Caps Lock, I lose all
mouse and keyboard control (even before closing the modifiers dialog). I can ssh
from another machine, but the GUI is effectively frozen (I can still see mail
checks, etc happening).

There must have been some sort of 'crash' though since doing a "shutdown -r now"
from the other machine started the reboot process but this Mac never rebooted. I
couldn't ssh in again to find out how far it got in the reboot process.

So, I would love to disable the caps lock key, but I'm not keen to try again.
Has anyone else seen this behaviour? Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Charlie


PS. Using Macally iMediaKey with iMediaKey software (along with original Mac
keyboard), also using a KVM switch and USB Overdrive. I'm assuming one of those
(or combination of those) is the problem. Maybe when I've got more time I can do
some trial & error elimination.
--
   Charlie Garrison <garrisonzeta.org.au>
   PO Box 141, Windsor, NSW 2756, Australia

At 07:10 -0700 UTC, on 2005/10/11, Charlie Garrison wrote:

> When I select 'No Action' for Caps Lock, I
>lose all
> mouse and keyboard control (even before closing the modifiers dialog). I
>can ssh
> from another machine, but the GUI is effectively frozen (I can still see mail
> checks, etc happening).
>
> There must have been some sort of 'crash' though since doing a "shutdown -r
>now"
> from the other machine started the reboot process but this Mac never
>rebooted. I
> couldn't ssh in again to find out how far it got in the reboot process.
>
> So, I would love to disable the caps lock key, but I'm not keen to try again.
> Has anyone else seen this behaviour?

I can only tell you that this method of disabling the Caps Lock key works
fine for me. This is with an Apple Extended II Keyboard (ADB), through an
iMate through a KVM switch connect to a PB G4. After disabling the Caps Lock
key, when I lock the key the keyboard's CapsLock light doesn't go on even.

> PS. Using Macally iMediaKey with iMediaKey software (along with original Mac
> keyboard), also using a KVM switch and USB Overdrive.

My setup doesn't require any additional software. That might be the
difference. If your keyboard requires its own software, it may be that that
does not support this option ('though granted, "does not support" is no
excuse to crash the entire system of course).


--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>

On 10/11/05, Charlie Garrison <garrisonzeta.org.au> wrote:
> when I select 'No Action' for Caps Lock, I lose all
> mouse and keyboard control (even before closing the modifiers dialog). I can ssh
> from another machine, but the GUI is effectively frozen (I can still see mail
> checks, etc happening).

I didn't see that, but I set my caps lock key to issue a "Control" not
a "No Action".

> Any suggestions?

"Control" is the key that is *supposed* to be there. Now, if I could
remap the caps look on my wintendo machine my KVM experience would be
much better.

--
<http://2blog.kreme.com/>

On Tue, 4 Oct 2005, Paul Norton wrote:

> For me the "ultimate" keyboard is one that doesn't give me the
> sensation of incipient carpal tunnel stress syndrome. Best solution
> I've found so far is an Adesso Tru-Form keyboard.
> http://www.adesso.com/products.asp
>
> There is a Mac model at:
> http://www.adesso.us/product_details.asp?dept%5Fid=107&pf%5Fid=KA33EKB%2D2100W

Have you worked with this keyboard for an extended period of time? If so,
has it held up well?

I am typing on an Adesso model EKB-2100, which I believe is the model
which was replaced by the one you refer to below. I have two of these
older Adesso keyboards, and both are experiencing problems with keys
breaking off, and one of them is starting to have certain keys (e.g. the
left space bar) resist when pressed so I have to press them harder.

I also have had 2 second-hand Adesso ADB keyboards with the same basic
design, both of which had problems with broken-off keys and keys that did
not respond (or responded only intermittently) when pressed.

So, while I like the ergonomics of the Adesso keyboards, I don't know that
I'll buy more, given my experience with their poor durability.

And, before anyone asks, I do not believe that I'm especially hard on
keyboards; I'm not a particularly forceful typist, for instance, and I
cover my keyboard at work every night before I leave to reduce dust
buildup.

--
-David
daviddierauer.net

I'm wondering if any of you ICEkey users would respond to a question for me.

I bought one more than a year ago, and was very happy with it until it started doing something very strange: it would, intermittently, but frequently enough to be bothersome, type a '±' character when I pressed the left shift key. I emailed MacAlly about it, but received no reply. The really odd thing is, I'd recommended this keyboard to a client, who bought several, and they all did the same thing, even in OS 9!?! [I can't say for sure which particular key(s) produced the result on their keyboards, but it was definitely the same '±' character, and I'm almost certain it was linked to one or the other shift key.]

So, my question: have any of you experienced this, and/or yes or no, do you have any idea what to do about it??

After getting very frustrated by the problem, I bought a Matias TactilePro about a month ago, but was put off by several things about it as well. Specifically, it had the frustrating habit of not recognizing some key combinations (the previously mentioned "phantom key" problem, or a variant?), as well as having a couple sticky keys. On top of those annoyances, it was just too loud for me to get used to, especially since my family and I share one long computer desk with three machines on it. So, while I await one of Matias' OS X keyboards, I've gone back to the old ICEkey. Happily, for the first few days, it didn't have the ± problem, but just yesterday it reappeared. It still isn't happening very often, but it has once or twice this morning, so I'm very puzzled (again!).

I would really appreciate hearing of other's experiences with this sort of issue, and any tips about what's going on (or a solution?) would be immensely appreciated.

Sincerely, John

P.S. Machine specifics (though as I said, it's been confirmed on several machines and at least two OS iterations): PowerMac G5/2GHz dually running 10.4.2 with 4GB of RAM.

So, my question: have any of you experienced this, and/or yes or no, do you have any idea what to do about it??

Hi John. I haven't had anything like that show up. Strangely enough, the earlier discussion I brought up regarding possible keyboard replacements made me buy this keyboard. Someone else brought that very problem you are talking about, but I forget which keyboard it was about. Something about the keyboard being a grid and it thinking you hit a neighbouring key. I've not run into any problems with this fine keyboard.

But, I am glad to hear (for my sake) that your experience with the TactilePro is less enjoyable than your previously working Icekey.

So have a look about keyboards within the past two months. Good luck.

Cheers

jiclark

On 19 Oct 2005, at 7.50 pm, jiclark wrote:

> I'm wondering if any of you ICEkey users would respond to a
> question for me.
>
> I bought one more than a year ago, and was very happy with it until
> it started doing something very strange: it would, intermittently,
> but frequently enough to be bothersome, type a '±' character when I
> pressed the left shift key. I emailed MacAlly about it, but
> received no reply. The really odd thing is, I'd recommended this
> keyboard to a client, who bought several, and they all did the same
> thing, even in OS 9!?! [I can't say for sure which particular key
> (s) produced the result on their keyboards, but it was definitely
> the same '±' character, and I'm almost certain it was linked to one
> or the other shift key.]
>
> So, my question: have any of you experienced this, and/or yes or
> no, do you have any idea what to do about it??

I've had my Icekey keyboard for more than 2 years and never had this
problem -- until two days ago!

Exactly the same symptoms, pressing the left shift key tended to
insert a plus-or-minus character. Particularly annoying because I
have a tendency to idly tap the modifier keys at the left side of the
keyboard while thinking about a problem!

I took the key off and cleaned the area under it (nothing fancy, just
blew on it a few times and brushed away with my fingers). There was
an eyelash and a bit of grit near the contacts. Once I'd cleared this
and put the key back on, it worked perfectly again and has continued
to do so since.

So I suggest carefully removing the key -- or at least lifting it
slightly -- and cleaning away the area underneath.

David