Maybe the World is Changing...

Nick Pappas <ngpappasnii.net> wrote:

As I walked into the Apple store I was amazed. There were at least 4 Apple staff and 15 to 20 customers/prospects. On a Monday night at 9:00 p.m.?

Not only a lot of people looking and buying, but Apple anticipated it enough to have adequate staff on hand. I asked a worker about it. "It's been like this for a while" she said.

What next?

I believe this to be a sign of the Apocalypse. You guys have seen that Apple's US market share has actually grown, right? I keep looking at the Hocking river every time I drive to work expecting to see it has turned to blood...

-- Greg Sigman, Senior Library Associate Ohio University Music/Dance Library sigmanohio.edu

On Monday, April 18, 2005, at 04:00 PM, Nick Pappas wrote:
> As I walked into the Apple store I was amazed. There were at least 4
> Apple staff and 15 to 20 customers/prospects. On a Monday night at
> 9:00 p.m.?
>
> Not only a lot of people looking and buying, but Apple anticipated it
> enough to have adequate staff on hand. I asked a worker about it.
> "It's been like this for a while" she said.
>

The Apple Store in Soho in NYC has been acknowledged for some time now
as a hip place for singles to hang out and meet in the New York Times,
Time Out New York, and other local media. Here's what the Gothamist
said in a recent blog entry, which includes some interesting links and
trackbacks:

http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2004/11/17/
soho_apple_store_as_singles_scene.php

It' probably happening in Boston too.

Marilyn

I've had to take my powerbook to visit the Geniuses at the
Boston-Cambridgeside Apple store several times in the last week, and I can
tell you from what I've seen, there will be no slow down in the next quarter
for Apple, if that store (and apparentely Peabody, as well) is any
indication. On Saturday, people were lined up four across, almost out the
door, waiting to check out. And they didn't wait long. As Nick said, they,
too, had plenty of staff and registers to handle the crowd. Other times not
as crowded, but certainly more than one would expect for the time of day.
The joint is jumpin'!

Maggie

I visited the Apple Store on the Santa Monica Promenade one cold and windy
day in February. All the other stores up and down the mall were empty.
Borders and Barnes & Noble had a few customers. The Apple store was crowded
and noisy. I didn't have an appointment so had to queue for an hour. (Good
thing for brick 'n' mortar Borders.)

I made a follow up appointment for Thursday, and again the retail-lined
street was cold and empty, but the Apple store was busy at the displays, the
G.Bar and the registers.

Note that this is not considered the flagship store in the Los Angeles area.
Both The Grove and the Pasadena store apparently get more business.

With all these reports of incredibly successful Apple Stores (and the
stores in both Philadelphia and Charlotte are the same way), why
isn't Apple expanding (opening more stores) at a faster pace? Is
there some sort of chic in having just a few stores with mobs of
people that are so far away that visiting involves more than an hour
of travel each way?

H.

On 4/22/05 13:04, "Hudson Barton" <hhbvhighwinds.com> wrote:

> With all these reports of incredibly successful Apple Stores (and the
> stores in both Philadelphia and Charlotte are the same way), why
> isn't Apple expanding (opening more stores) at a faster pace? Is
> there some sort of chic in having just a few stores with mobs of
> people that are so far away that visiting involves more than an hour
> of travel each way?

Because Gateway did this, and suffered for it spectacularly. Slow, moderate
growth here ensures long term success.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

On 4/22/2005 11:04, "Hudson Barton" <hhbvhighwinds.com> wrote:

> With all these reports of incredibly successful Apple Stores (and the
> stores in both Philadelphia and Charlotte are the same way), why
> isn't Apple expanding (opening more stores) at a faster pace?

Ask the Krispie Kreme execs what happens when you open retail stores
uncautiously. Or Silo. Or ...

  --John

At 11:04 AM -0700 4/22/05, Hudson Barton wrote:
>With all these reports of incredibly successful Apple Stores (and
>the stores in both Philadelphia and Charlotte are the same way), why
>isn't Apple expanding (opening more stores) at a faster pace? Is
>there some sort of chic in having just a few stores with mobs of
>people that are so far away that visiting involves more than an hour
>of travel each way?

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/14retail.html
"over half of the US population lives within 15 minutes of an Apple
retail store."

If threads were to collide, I wonder what correllation we'd see
between lack of broadband and living more than 15 minutes from an
Apple retail store?

--
Andrew Laurence
atlaurenuci.edu

On Friday, April 22, 2005, at 02:04 PM, Hudson Barton wrote:

> With all these reports of incredibly successful Apple Stores (and the
> stores in both Philadelphia and Charlotte are the same way), why
> isn't Apple expanding (opening more stores) at a faster pace?

I read an article a while ago in a business or advertising magazine (I
can't remember where) that decisions on where to open Apple Stores is
based on a very complex analysis of the number of Mac and iPod owners
in a particular area, along with demographic data. They also obviously
consider traffic, and consider whether the areas are highly trafficked
with potential buyers and switchers (i.e. - artsy-fartsies, yuppies,
geeks, upscale families and fashionistas).

Apple is also obviously putting a lot of emphasis on in store
merchandising and getting more profits and sales out of each existing
store. They are investing in keeping the Genius level high, adding
services, showcasing products, etc. Every time I stop by one of the
three stores in the NYC/Long Island areas I frequent, there have been
changes in the way the stock is presented - just about as often as
Bloomingdale's, Saks, etc. would.

It's a very different strategy than the one that failed for Gateway,
who dumped tacky, badly staffed stores just about anywhere there was a
lot of traffic, and kept adding more stores at a rapid pace.

I do remember reading in at least one place that Apple had some smaller
mini-stores in the works for the near future - some of which should be
open before the holiday season. I've read that Apple is planning to
have enough iPods to meet the holiday demand this year.

BTW, when the Apple stores were first announced, I thought it was a
rather wacky idea and didn't have much chance to succeed in more than a
few key cities. Steve Jobs is obviously much smarter and a savvier
marketer than me.

Marilyn

>http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/14retail.html
>"over half of the US population lives within 15 minutes of an Apple
>retail store."
>

No offense, but that quotation about half the population living
within 15 minutes of an Apple retail store is pure nonsense. Unless
you include the non-Apple owned stores, that claim would be terribly
exaggerated. CompUSA and an Apple Store are just not comparable.

The stereotype of big city dwellers seeing the world myopically is
absolutely true. The fact is that most of the world lives elsewhere,
even in America. The Apple stores are located in just a few major
metropolitan areas, and if you happen to live in one it can still
take more than an hour to go across town, let alone 15 minutes. If
you live in a smaller city, you're just plain out of luck.

Don't get me wrong. I love the Apple stores and want them to be
staffed and stocked properly, not like the Gateway stores, or
CompUSA. In other words, I understand and support most of the
strategy to go slow. It's just that if the "World is changing" (the
title of this thread) then it's time to change the strategy. There's
a long way to go before Apple comes even close to Gateway-style
market over-saturation. Just look at the evidence of the crowded
stores. Then look at a map.

H.

On Apr 23, 2005, at 12:29 AM, Marty Curtis wrote:

As I recall from marketing, the three factors for choosing where to open a new store were: location; location; and location (not necessarily in that order).

When I bought a 12" Powerbook, I called to check with the Apple Store if they had them in stock as they had only been out a couple of weeks. Since I had to drive about 70 miles to the nearest store, I asked why they had several stores so close together on the west side of Los Angeles and in the South Coast area? The response was "Apple determined location on where there was a large concentration of Mac users, i.e. buyers.

I suspect there's also a factor of how well the existing community is supported by independent Apple resellers. I live in western Massachusetts, which has several schools, and a very strong Mac user presence at all of them -- but the nearest Apple stores to where I live are outside of Hartford (an hour's drive), Albany (an hour and a quarter), Salem, MA (an hour and a half), and the ones in the Boston area (two hours, give or take). That said, the college and university bookstores all have reseller deals with Apple, and there is a local independent Apple authorized reseller and a CompUSA.

The presence of an independent reseller probably isn't enough to prevent the arrival of an Apple store, especially if it's a lucrative market that isn't being well enough served. But I suspect my region is well enough served or not lucrative enough that Apple is concentrating on other areas first. Apple would probably get a lot more of my business if they opened an Apple store at the major shopping mall not 3 miles from my front door, but they already get quite a bit of my business anyway.....

Charlton

-- Charlton Wilbur cwilburchromatico.net cwilburgmail.com cwilburmac.com

--On April 22, 2005 11:04:47 AM -0700 Hudson Barton <hhbvhighwinds.com>
wrote:

> With all these reports of incredibly successful Apple Stores (and the
> stores in both Philadelphia and Charlotte are the same way), why isn't
> Apple expanding (opening more stores) at a faster pace? Is there some
> sort of chic in having just a few stores with mobs of people that are so
> far away that visiting involves more than an hour of travel each way?

Growing too fast can be dangerous. Apple probably conducts a lot of market
research into each location. The initial ones were probably no brainers,
New York, San Francisco, etc.... But the others probably required more time
to make sure the local population was enough to support a dedicated store.

Ultimate Electronics just closed 3 stores here in Kansas City less than a
year after opening them. Nothing makes a company seem on the rocks than
closing stores mere months after opening them.

Kevin

> http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/14retail.html
> "over half of the US population lives within 15 minutes of an Apple
> retail store."

What a crock!

I live in New York City, and even if there wasn't a single car on any
of the roads, it would take me about 20-30 minutes to drive get to the
Apple Store in Soho, and longer to get to any of the stores in Long
Island.


[Clearly it's 15 minutes as the crow flies. :-) -Adam]


Marilyn

At 8:48 AM -0700 4/23/05, Hudson Barton wrote:
>>http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2004/oct/14retail.html
>>"over half of the US population lives within 15 minutes of an Apple
>>retail store."
>
>No offense, but that quotation about half the population living
>within 15 minutes of an Apple retail store is pure nonsense.

Given that it's clearly marketingspeak in a press release, I think
it's obvious that some hyperbole is at play. Moreover, I think we
can find in that statement a clue as to Apple's strategy in placing
their stores: within close proximity of large populations (and
demographic matches with their customer base). In other words, low
hanging fruit.

I live within walking distance of one of Apple's stores in Orange
County. That store is in a snooty mall which lies at the nexus of
three freeways - any body in this county can be there within 15
minutes. Apple's other store is in a much snootier mall (more
Jaguars and BMWs), but not nearly as accessible by freeways. Both
stores, as it happens, are within 8 driving minutes of a large public
university. (cough cough)

--
Andrew Laurence
atlaurenuci.edu

On 4/23/2005 8:48, "cwilbur" <cwilburchromatico.net> wrote:

> The presence of an independent reseller probably isn't enough to
> prevent the arrival of an Apple store, especially if it's a lucrative
> market that isn't being well enough served.

"The Mac Store" (its current name) near downtown, and a really good
independent in Lynnwood (an hour north of Seattle, and handier for me than
any of Apple's locations), and others didn't keep Apple from opening 3
stores in the Seattle area.

That Lynnwood store didn't miss a beat when Apple shut down the half (or
more) of their business which sold Macs to schools--they simply switched to
the same people selling Compaq machines to the same schools. One of many of
Steve's strange decisions. I don't think that school business has yet come
back to Apple in any quantity.

  --John

On Apr 23, 2005, at 11:16 PM, John W. Baxter wrote:
> On 4/23/2005 8:48, "cwilbur" <cwilburchromatico.net> wrote:
>> The presence of an independent reseller probably isn't enough to
>> prevent the arrival of an Apple store, especially if it's a lucrative
>> market that isn't being well enough served.
>
> "The Mac Store" (its current name) near downtown, and a really good
> independent in Lynnwood (an hour north of Seattle, and handier for me
> than any of Apple's locations), and others didn't keep Apple from opening 3
> stores in the Seattle area.

I know - I've heard similar reports.

My suspicion is that Apple looks at areas, asking themselves how many
registered Macs there are in the area, and how much revenue they get
from the authorized Apple resellers in that area. (Probably also how
much they think the market in that area can grow, and how much
evangelism the local authorized Apple reseller does or can do.) If the
numbers don't line up, they open an Apple store. A good independent
store won't have a real problem competing with that, but a mediocre
independent will be forced to improve or go out of business, and I've
seen some pretty bad independent Mac resellers.

--
Charlton Wilbur
cwilburchromatico.net
cwilburgmail.com
cwilburmac.com

On 4/25/05 10:38, "Kevin van Haaren" <kevinvanhaaren.net> wrote:

> Ultimate Electronics just closed 3 stores here in Kansas City less than a
> year after opening them. Nothing makes a company seem on the rocks than
> closing stores mere months after opening them.

Yep, and the one on Barry Road was the silliest thing I've ever seen. Less
than two miles from Circuit City and Best Buy, and three miles or so from a
super Wal Mart and Office Max. Getting to the store was tedious, (so much so
they had to put in a traffic signal.) requiring a U-turn in one direction.

There was also nothing else there. Just Ultimate Electronics. Circuit City
is in a strip mall with a Target, a Michaels, and some other stores, while
Best Buy has a Toys 'R Us and a non-strip mall across the street. So if you
went to Ultimate Electronics, that was ALL you were doing there.

It looked more like they said "HEY! We gots cheap land. Build it and they
will come".

Meanwhile, Circuit City and Best Buy said "PWN3D, Lus3r!"

I never saw more than twenty people in that place, even during the christmas
season.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

At 01:00 PM 4/18/2005, Nick Pappas wrote:

As I walked into the Apple store I was amazed. There were at least 4 Apple staff and 15 to 20 customers/prospects.

Not to put a negative spin on this, just an observation.

We had two very good Apple retailers in the Bay Area until Apple essentially ran them out of the business. Apple stores  are wonderfully successful, but to some degree it's from lack of options for the consumer. I would absolutely rather visit a high quality Mac store, with a wider range of merchandise, outside of a Mall. That option just doesn't exist around here and in a major market like Silicon Valley that seems odd.


<x-sigsep>

</x-sigsep> Allen Carter

We waited a while for the first UK Apple store, but they picked a site about 100m from Oxford Circus, in the middle of the West End of London. I've been three times, always mid-week in the mid-afternoon and on each occasion there were at least 150 people in the store, with a queue of 20+ people waiting to pay at 6 active checkouts. Many people were sitting around using the WiFi facilities with their own machines. They are opening a second full store in Birmingham on 29 April, and a mini-store at a regional shopping centre (Bluewater) on the London orbital motorway in the summer.

On 27 Apr 2005, at 09:04 :48, julianhickling wrote:
> Many people were sitting around using the WiFi facilities with
> their own machines.

When I am out away from home I often make a lunch detour to the Mall
where the Apple Store is. I can eat, then wander up to the Apple
Store, check my email, and get back to what I was doing. I almost
always see a few others doing the same thing.


--
If fashion is your trade then when you're naked I guess you must be
unemployed.