Problems with VERPs

Curtis Wilcox (apparently) - 07:20am Feb 23, 2005 PST
via email

The first thing that sprang to mind was a possible snag with
challenge-response systems. Do some challenge-response systems use the
envelope sender instead of the address visible on the From: line of the
message? It seems from a quick web search that they do. In that case,
wouldn't every list message be challenged by such a system unless the entire
tidbits.com domain was whitelisted or if messages could be whitelisted based
on the To: & Cc: lines.

<http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=07991>
<http://www.templetons.com/brad/spam/challengeresponse.html>

I know the problems of challenge-response systems have been discussed here
before but the list archive is down at the moment so I can't reference any
specific thread.

[I think any problems with VERP and challenge-response falls into the sphere of responsibility of the receiver. We simply can't be responsible for delivering mail through whatever random obstacles any individual has created. That was true before we moved to Web Crossing, and it remains true now. -Adam]

--
Curtis Wilcox Network Infrastructure Manager
cwilcox

esm.rochester.edu Eastman School of Music

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John C. Welch (apparently) - Feb 24, 2005 11:56 am (#1 Total: 2)

via email

Posts: 834

Re: Problems with VERPs

On 2/23/05 8:20 AM, "Wilcox, Curtis" <cwilcox

esm.rochester.edu> wrote:

> I know the problems of challenge-response systems have been discussed here
> before but the list archive is down at the moment so I can't reference any
> specific thread.
>
>
> [I think any problems with VERP and challenge-response falls into the sphere
> of responsibility of the receiver. We simply can't be responsible for
> delivering mail through whatever random obstacles any individual has created.
> That was true before we moved to Web Crossing, and it remains true now. -Adam]

What Adam said, only double. Your spam is your problem, and managing it is
your job...(note: this is the non-specific "you"/"your", as in "not
me/mine", not you, Curtis Wilcox) just as my spam is my problem and managing
it is my job.

john

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelch

bynkii.com

jwblist (apparently) - Feb 25, 2005 8:30 am (#2 Total: 2)

via email

Posts: 768

Re: Problems with VERPs

On 2/24/2005 10:56, "John C. Welch" <jwelch

bynkii.com> wrote:

> On 2/23/05 8:20 AM, "Wilcox, Curtis" <cwilcox

esm.rochester.edu> wrote:
>
>> I know the problems of challenge-response systems have been discussed here
>> before but the list archive is down at the moment so I can't reference any
>> specific thread.
>>
>>
>> [I think any problems with VERP and challenge-response falls into the sphere
>> of responsibility of the receiver. We simply can't be responsible for
>> delivering mail through whatever random obstacles any individual has created.
>> That was true before we moved to Web Crossing, and it remains true now.
>> -Adam]
>
> What Adam said, only double. Your spam is your problem, and managing it is
> your job...(note: this is the non-specific "you"/"your", as in "not
> me/mine", not you, Curtis Wilcox) just as my spam is my problem and managing
> it is my job.
>

VERP doesn't *have* to be a problem with greylisting. We collapse sending
addresses down in a way which equalizes many VERP forms for multiple
messages per recipient, for the greylisting database. In the case of the
TidBITS form of VERP, we end up with
bounce.#.#

tidbits.com
which seems to be invariant.

Now off to restore the whitelisting we did for the TidBITS empire before
(based on IP)...we already have other IPs in the same /24 subnet as
emperor's current address whitelisted. (I trust Chuck and Adam
completely...I don't necessarily trust all of Chuck's customers without
knowing who they are, and I don't have a need to know.)

--John

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