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![[F]](/Images/i7/site.gif) TidBITS  TidBITS TidBITS Talk
Take Control of Backups for low end users![[charlie_franklin]](/webx/?30@@1) charlie_franklin - 06:03am Dec 21, 2004 PSTI have purchased and read one of the latest Take Control books (this is number 4 for me), and while it is written in the usual clear and concise style and addresses a number of different options and programs available, I don't think it clearly enough addresses the issues that I face in choosing a backup strategy, and I'm assuming there are many others like me. < http://db.tidbits.com/getbits.acgi?tbart=07912> I don't disagree with the premise in the book that for most users a full backup strategy is needed with duplicate and incremental backups as part of that strategy, and that the issue for them is mainly of how often to do it, with from memory the author recommending that the most infrequent frequency is once a week. In my case however, I don't do any significant "work" on my Mac's, unfortunately I have to put up with Wintel machines at work that are part of a corporate backup strategy. I use my Mac's as a hobby, and as my only means of connecting to the Internet. I do a significant amount of daily browsing keeping abreast of what happens with Mac's and my other interests,(but there's nothing there that needs backing up) as well as checking my mail which deals with the same topics through mailing lists, as well as keeping in touch with friends and listening to iTunes and using iPhoto for my digital photos. As the author says, don't worry about non purchased music in iTunes, and I burn my photos to CD as the number builds up, so the only significant issue for me is personal information and mail. I think the book needed to address the three L's that Adam referred to recently in an article on wireless security. Likelihood, Liability and Lost Opportunity so that readers can make a realistic assessment of the level of backup that is appropriate for them. In my case, the likelihood of a problem is probably higher then many users, as I am fiddling with different Mac programs, but not ones that are on the bleeding edge. (Last significant crash with data loss was about two years ago). But to balance that out I have almost zero Liability and lost opportunity as I found out a month or so back, when through a mistake that was entirely my own fault, I lost my Inbox on my mail, with no option to recover it. I'm not particularly good at filing all of my incoming mail, but those things that relate to mailing lists are filed for me, and I am fairly good at filing things relating to current projects of significance. It's just the general day to day family and other one off type mail's I don't bother filing. The upshot was, that although I panicked about my loss, it didn't take me long to discover that there was really nothing of significance that I was missing, and that got me to thinking about the issues of opportunity and liability. If I lost my entire hard drive now, it would not be the end of the world. I copy my data directory across with a finder copy to one of my other Mac's every month or so, and what I have done in the last month is either not that important, or I could reconstruct it from memory or by referring to other people and e-mail's I've sent them. In the book the recommendations pretty much say, although there are free or cheap programs that will do the job, none of them do all the things people need, so I should buy Retrospect. Also the recommendations read to me like they are really geared towards buying at least two, if not three external hard drives and that I should back up once a week with an off site backup set as well. Now in my situation that's a fair bit of money, and effort, for what is unlikely, and if it does happen would really not be the end of the world. So what I suppose I'm saying is as a suggestion for the next issue of the book, how about addressing the lower end of the backup needs spectrum by giving people the tools to assess their own level of risks, and providing some suggested strategies that are realistic for us given the three L's. So am I by myself here, or do others agree that there needs to be more attention to the lower end needs? Charlie
tbutler (apparently)
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Dec 28, 2004 10:56 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On 12/23/04 at 5:31 PM, charlie_franklin  mac.com (charlie_franklin)
wrote:
> I might be unique in not having much of a need, but still willing to
> look for something, but I think if the book was able to recommend a
> nice simple strategy for low end people like me, then others might
> take it up.
>
> [I think the real question you have to answer (and perhaps ask here)
> is what you really do need. There are three costs here: hardware,
> software, and time. Usually spending more on one allows you to spend
> less on the others, but you'll pay something no matter what. -Adam]
I think that's one of the important questions you have to answer. The
other is what resources you have available, or to put it another way,
what costs can you afford to pay and where.
Hardware is a comparatively big cost now, compared to where it used to
be. A few years ago, hard drives were small enough to be backed up by a
cheap Teac or QIC tape drive; these drives in turn were cheap enough in
comparison with the entire system ($150 or so, IIRC, compared to $1500
and up for the whole computer) that purchasing one didn't take a big
bite out of a computer budget. Tape backup was reasonably convenient,
and while the backup programs I saw on the PC side were pretty crappy,
they could at least get the job done with a reasonable
start-and-leave-it facility.
Now, however, the capacity of hard drives has exploded well beyond the
capability of cheap tape drives, leaving the home user without a good
backup medium to use. CD-R was briefly a decent choice, but HD capacity
quickly ballooned beyond the ability of CD-R to keep up; it's still
possible to back up a typical user's non-media documents on a single CD,
I think -- but add in music libraries and movie/video files, and you're
in trouble.
This is where I see the decision knot forming for low-end users. Can I
manage my backup needs to fit on a single CD so I can do a simple
drag-and-copy? (The discussion we had a year ago on where OS X [and
applications] store their files touched on this aspect.) Can I afford to
buy a backup program that will manage backing up to multiple CDs, as
well as the time spent sitting in front of the computer swapping CDs?
Can I afford to buy a Firewire HD *just* for backup? These aren't the
rhetorical questions some people take them as, especially for the
lowest-end users; the largest-capacity external HDs can cost almost as
much as an entire low-end system does from places like eMachines and
Dell.
Someone upthread tossed around a figure of $600-800 for a backup system.
That's as much as an eMac costs; I really, really doubt most home users
will spend as much on backup as they'll spend on the entire computer.
> If my experience is anything to go by, other people out there with
> low end needs have probably tried some of the other solutions, and
> given up because of the complexity, and so are going along with no
> backup solution now.
>
> Maybe the problem is that there is no simple solution program
> available for the Mac community?
I think it's more likely that there's no simple solution available for
low-end computer users as a whole. For a brief moment right now, I think
DVD-R discs have enough capacity to conveniently handle most low-end
user's backup needs, but the drives are mostly standard on mid-range and
high-end machines. I'm not even sure what hardware high-end users are
working with for network backup - autoloading multi-cart tape drives?
Hot-swapped hard drive modules? It's not a new observation, I know, but
I think it bears repeating that backup storage technologies have
seriously lagged behind primary storage technologies.
[I suspect most low-end users, even if they have a large hard disk, are not using nearly all of it, and thus would be fine with DVD-R. -Adam]
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Dan Frakes (apparently)
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Dec 28, 2004 10:56 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On 12/27/2004 10:33 AM, "Kevin van Haaren" wrote:
> Another potential off-site backup method is to simply mail a CD/DVD to
> parents, siblings, in-laws, etc...
Another alternative I've used in the past is a P.O. box at your local post
office, reasonably priced for a year. You can just send CDs or DVDs with
important data to your own P.O. box and your data will be "stored" off-site
with minimal effort.
--
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< http://www.danfrakes.com/>
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Lewis Butler (apparently)
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Dec 28, 2004 10:56 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:35:23 -0800, Chris Pepper <pepper reppep.com> wrote:
> I think this is Apple's Backup, or the Internet backup
> services, which seem to be targetted at people in your boat, and
> deliberately simple. On the other hand, they apparently don't work
> well, and don't have much security (Apple has your data, and there
> are probably lots of people at Apple with access). Additionally,
> Apple disk space isn't cheap compared to other options.
Apple Backup works fine, and Apple does not "have" your data. First
of all, the data stored on you iDisk, if you choose to store data on
your iDisk, is encrypted. Second of all, Backup will backup to Hard
Disks, iPods, CDs, or DVDs. Yes, it requires a .Mac subscription, but
that said it is a reasonable backup for most people to protect the
files that are important.
It's a dead-simple way to backup the important files from your home
directory. I use it to keep a backup of my keychains on .Mac, for
example.
> That said, I think rsync (or RsyncX, which handles resource
> forks and adds a GUI) is an excellent backup option for people with
> multiple computers who are willing to deal with the command line. If
> you can backup your home system to work via broadband Internet, so
> much the better.
Rsync is great. I do not at all like the direction RsyncX has gone.
I preferred just having a new CLI executable to having to futz with
what is, in my opinion, a horrible user interface.
> It looks like the RsyncX GUI is pretty helpful, but I haven't
> tried it. I would be very happy if Apple provided a version of rsync
> that dealt intelligently with resource forks. In the meantime, less
> and less programs really care about them (mostly just Eudora 6 for
> me, currently).
Enough apps still use resource forks that bakcing up just with rsync
without resource fork support WILL break thing. Too many things.
--
< http://2blog.kreme.com/blog/2944/Twas_the_Night_Before_Christmas>
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edward (apparently)
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Dec 28, 2004 10:56 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
At 10:33 AM 12/27/2004 -0800, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:
>it's still too complex
Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
In May 1998, I wrote in Tidbits Talk:
Backup devices aren't cool, won't help sell a system, but are absolutely
essential. Therefore the manufacturers have a duty to bundle them with
every system sold. Furthermore, the software should be preconfigured to do
backups automatically unless the user turns the feature off.
Radical? In some senses yes. On the other hand, robust database management
systems are automatically configured to keep audit trails to avoid ever
losing a single byte of data. The idea is not new. We need some imaginative
new techniques and configurations to make it work robustly in a consumer
environment, but those are to be expected in leading edge computing.
Market-driven philosophies are often extended beyond their reach, to say
"if X doesn't sell, it must not be worthwhile". Counterexamples are easy to
come by, education perhaps being the best. The fact that backup devices
won't help sell systems, and that users don't like doing backups and don't
understand the need, doesn't change the requirement. Manufacturers have a
responsibility to their customers, not just to the market.
and in November 2000;
The real issue, though, is not for people who read TidBITS Talk or even
TidBITS. It's for the much greater masses who don't know enough about
computers to make these decisions, for whom this agonizing over kinds of
backups is angels-dancing-on-a-pin stuff. Who just want to use to computer
to do something -- and SHOULDN'T HAVE TO worry about failures and backups.
The free market has not served them well.
And now ...
Of course, nothing has changed for the least knowledgeable users. There
have been some improvements in the midrange, but below that, most users are
playing roulette. There's certainly not even a hint of auto-protecting
systems, and none of the imaginative new techniques I called for back in 1998.
So how am I doing, as a knowledgeable user? Well, last month I bought a
250GB external Firewire drive for backups of various systems and to hold
photos and music, since my laptop's hard drive has shrunk to the point that
it couldn't hold them all. Yesterday I had it set up at my mom's to back up
her system and possibly show off some photographs, when she caught her foot
on the power cord I had carelessly left lying across the floor. Fourteen
inches to a tile floor while spinning 7200 RPM. But I hadn't yet had time
to finish setting up the backups for the photos and music on the big disk.
Oops. I will be able to cobble the replacement drive back together, almost
as it was, from various backups. But I clearly need to listen to my own
sermons again.
Edward Reid
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Nik (apparently)
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Dec 28, 2004 10:56 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On Dec 27, 2004, at 11:33 AM, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:
> 1) Once the program is set up, and backup device (like FW HD)
> identified, every time the backup device is plugged in, the program
> automatically kicks in, makes an incremental BU of the specified
> directory (like ~/Users or even the entire boot drive), no user
> intervention.
Synchronize Pro X can do this.
< http://www.qdea.com/>
> 2) Periodic reminders to BU would be nice, too.
Sync Pro can OPEN and thereby suggest a backup at any interval you wish.
I have to agree with everything you said, though. If a backup isn't
wholly transparent and easy, users won't use it. Personally, I like a
backup program which logs errors and just skips any file that's
problematic. Then I can check the backup at my leisure and figure out
if anything's missing and check the appropriate log files. Sync Pro X
does this fairly well, as can Retrospect if properly configured.
--Nik
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mmatty (apparently)
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Dec 28, 2004 10:56 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On Thursday, December 23, 2004, at 11:58 AM, dbjarvis peak.org wrote:
> And please do not suggest placing backups in a Bank Safe Deposit or
> even
> with a neighbor. For most people, this is so inconvenient that it would
> seldom happen. For myself, I use an inexpensive "firesafe" bolted to a
> corner of the concrete foundations in my basement.
I think I've mentioned this before - at a company I used to work for,
they learned the hard way that "firesafe" doesn't always mean
"watersafe." When backup disks were desperately needed, they were found
languishing in a nice warm bath because a pipe had sprung a leak in the
wall the very expensive fireproof, high security safe was installed in.
And if there's a fire, chances are that water will be part of the
equation when the fire department comes to put it out.
So I strongly recommend offsite storage of an extra set of backup disks
for low and high end strategies.
Marilyn
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mmatty (apparently)
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Dec 28, 2004 10:56 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On Monday, December 27, 2004, at 01:33 PM, Nicholas Barnard wrote:
> This is extremely tangentially related but it something new.
>
> I just completed a purchase from the iTunes Music store. I got a
> dialog stating "Thank you for purchasing from the iTunes Music Store.
> Your music is valuable - please back it up in case your computer
> fails."
>
> I wonder what brought that new dialog? Perhaps an irate customer
> whose drive failed? Or may one of the new products for us in January
> be a backup solution? (Speaking of which the whole arena is in need
> of some Apple-ification, backing up can just be too complicated.)
It was probably more than one irate customer ;-)
I also know Windoze iPod users who had their libraries wiped out
because of virus problems, esp. people who also downloaded infected
files from Kaaza, etc.
Marilyn
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Nik (apparently)
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Jan 3, 2005 11:14 am
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On Dec 28, 2004, at 10:56 PM, Marilyn Matty wrote:
> I think I've mentioned this before - at a company I used to work for,
> they learned the hard way that "firesafe" doesn't always mean
> "watersafe." When backup disks were desperately needed, they were found
> languishing in a nice warm bath because a pipe had sprung a leak in the
> wall the very expensive fireproof, high security safe was installed in.
>
> And if there's a fire, chances are that water will be part of the
> equation when the fire department comes to put it out.
A good quality media or documents safe should be fireproof as well as
waterproof. Impact resistance is also useful in case a ceiling
collapses. Remember, a safe is for a worst-case scenario.
My wife and I bought a Sentry documents safe which we are quite pleased
with. While we haven't tested it in a fire (thank goodness!), it seems
incredibly burly. Reading the materials on Sentry's sites about how
they test their safes makes me quite confident that the product will
last.
They also sell media safes.
< http://www.sentrysafe.com/Series.asp?r=5>
Prices for a high quality safe are not cheap. (Around $250 for the
cheapest media safe.) For some people it could well be worth it. Having
an off-site backup is of course ideal, but not always easy to do, esp.
if there are sensitive documents.
--Nik
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Nik (apparently)
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Jan 3, 2005 11:14 am
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On Dec 28, 2004, at 10:56 PM, Travis Butler wrote:
> Someone upthread tossed around a figure of $600-800 for a backup
> system.
> That's as much as an eMac costs; I really, really doubt most home users
> will spend as much on backup as they'll spend on the entire computer.
This is a real key problem. I would love to set up a simple (as in
simple to use, not necessarily simple to set up) backup program for my
own and my wife's computer. Since we both have laptops and often take
them to school and on trips, the likelihood of data loss is quite high.
The best system I've been able to sketch out would be to use an old Mac
(I have a Cube sitting around as a sort of file server) running
Retrospect back up our two machines as clients. That way, when we come
home and get on the (wireless) network, our systems will automatically
back up their data.
As far as the data load, my wife's documents are fairly compact and
probably mirror the "average" user. Call it, I don't know, one or two
gigabytes. Then my machine is another story, and clocks in at a hearty
30 gigs, not counting MP3s. Between the two of us, we also have about a
40 gig MP3 collection. Even if I have only ONE backup drive (which, in
order to store rolling backups with versioning, would have to be around
150 gigs), I'm looking at $200 for the drive. Call it $400 if I'm
alternating backup sets with an off-site device. Retrospect (which,
thankfully, comes with two client licenses in its normal form) is
another $100, and an upgrade to the wireless network to 802.11g (so
that we aren't sitting all day never QUITE backing up, thanks to our
current anemic 802.11b network) will be another $150.
Ending price: $650. And I already HAD a G4 Cube sitting around to
facilitate all of this.
So, I'm back to a crazy backup scheme of some stuff going to an iDisk,
my MP3s are "backed up" (if not recoverable without breaking Apple's
TOS) on my iPod (same site as my Powerbook, most of the time), my
school documents are regularly copied to a flash drive, and everything
else is somewhat haphazardly backed up to a FW hard drive (only 20
gigs, so it's a subset of what I'd REALLY like to back up). As for my
wife's files, well, I'm pretty sure she doesn't back up at all. So far
I've been pretty good at recovering files when she gets hit by virii or
when her HP "craptop" bonked on her.
--Nik
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nick170 (apparently)
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Jan 3, 2005 11:14 am
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via email - http://www.inmff.net |
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
>On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:35:23 -0800, Chris Pepper <pepper reppep.com> wrote:
>Rsync is great. I do not at all like the direction RsyncX has gone.
>I preferred just having a new CLI executable to having to futz with
>what is, in my opinion, a horrible user interface.
The issue I have with rsync is finding a good offsite host. The best
I've seen is $25/month. $300/year makes an offsite rsync backup
prohibitive.
Nick
http://www.inmff.net
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hartley
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Jan 3, 2005 11:23 am
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
I hope I'm not the only person who has this problem. I have read the Backups book and am ready to implement its suggestions to use hard drives for backups, but I have one problem. I currently own a PowerBook G4 (version = 2.1) which I purchased in 2002. It has a 550 MHz PowerPC G4 processor, and one FireWire port and two USB ports. The problem is that I can't figure out if the usb ports are 2.0 or earlier. I assume that the firewire port is 400, but I don't know that for a fact. How does one know for these older macs what hard drives will work with them? [I think this page on Apple's support site will help you figure that out. I doubt they're USB 2.0, and I'd err on the side of FireWire anyway since it seems likely that Apple would have put more effort into it than USB 2.0. -Adam] < http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86283> Thanks,
Charlie
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Chris Pepper (apparently)
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Jan 4, 2005 3:36 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
At 10:14 AM -0800 2005/01/03, Nicholas Barnard wrote:
>>On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 10:35:23 -0800, Chris Pepper <pepper reppep.com> wrote:
>>Rsync is great. I do not at all like the direction RsyncX has gone.
>>I preferred just having a new CLI executable to having to futz with
>>what is, in my opinion, a horrible user interface.
>
>The issue I have with rsync is finding a good offsite host. The best
>I've seen is $25/month. $300/year makes an offsite rsync backup
>prohibitive.
Trade with a friend you trust? Two Macs with broadband and
free disk space should do the trick. You can back up ~nick to a
normal (unprivileged) account on a Mac OS X (or UNIX/Linux) system,
but to back up a bootable system you'd need root access to the remote
machine.
--
Chris Pepper: < http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/>
Rockefeller University: < http://www.rockefeller.edu/>
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Chris Pepper (apparently)
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Jan 4, 2005 3:36 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
At 10:23 AM -0800 2005/01/03, hartley wrote:
>I hope I'm not the only person who has this problem. I have read the
>Backups book and am ready to implement its suggestions to use hard
>drives for backups, but I have one problem.
>
>I currently own a PowerBook G4 (version = 2.1) which I purchased in
>2002. It has a 550 MHz PowerPC G4 processor, and one FireWire port
>and two USB ports.
>
>The problem is that I can't figure out if the usb ports are 2.0 or
>earlier. I assume that the firewire port is 400, but I don't know
>that for a fact. How does one know for these older macs what hard
>drives will work with them?
FireWire 800 ports use a different connector on the Mac. The
normal "6-pin FireWire" port on your PowerBook is FW 800; my 15"
1.5GHz PBG4 has one like that, and a different FW800 port. With an
adapter, you can connect a FW400 device to a FW800 port
>[I think this page on Apple's support site will help you figure that
>out. I doubt they're USB 2.0, and I'd err on the side of FireWire
>anyway since it seems likely that Apple would have put more effort
>into it than USB 2.0. -Adam]
>
><< http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86283> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86283>
It's unlikely you have USB 2.0 Hi-Speed (it's technically
possible to have a 12mbps USB 2.0 device, although not particularly
useful) ports on your older PowerBook G4. On a 2x2GHz G5, Apple
System Profiler shows "USB Bus" 4 times (each 12mbps) and one "USB
High-Speed Bus" running at 480mbps, fwiw.
12mbps would be painful to back up to, and FireWire 400
should be comparable to USB Hi-Speed 2.0. Personally, I would only
buy a FW + USB 2.0 HS external drive at this point.
--
Chris Pepper: < http://www.reppep.com/~pepper/>
Rockefeller University: < http://www.rockefeller.edu/>
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bitreader (apparently)
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Jan 4, 2005 3:36 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On 1/3/05 at 10:23 AM, hartley iglou.com (hartley) wrote:
>I currently own a PowerBook G4 (version = 2.1) which I purchased in
>2002. It has a 550 MHz PowerPC G4 processor, and one FireWire port
>and two USB ports.
>The problem is that I can't figure out if the usb ports are 2.0 or
>earlier. I assume that the firewire port is 400, but I don't know
>that for a fact. How does one know for these older macs what hard
>drives will work with them?
I have a 800 MHz TiBook I purchased around the same time frame. When I go to the Apple Menu select About This Mac, click on the More Info button then look at the USB information under hardware, I see the USB bus is specified to be up to 12 Mb/sec and can supply up to 500 mA. Although this doesn't specifically say USB 1.0, I am fairly certain USB 2.0 is faster than 12 Mb/sec.
Clicking on FireWire is even clearer. It shows a spec of 400 Mb/sec. I strongly suspect your system is the same with respect to USB and FireWire as mine.
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Alan Forkosh (apparently)
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Jan 4, 2005 3:36 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
According to Mactracker (a free download from http://www.mactracker.ca), the first Powerbooks with USB2 ports didn't ship unitl September 2003.
Note that Mactracker is a great resource for the specs on Macs, clones, and other Apple-produced Mac-related products.
--
Alan Forkosh <aforkosh mac.com> Voice:(510)655-4221
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Joe Kissell
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Jan 4, 2005 3:38 pm
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
Hi folks, I'm just now getting caught up with all the correspondence I missed during a two-week vacation which was, shockingly, entirely email-free! I've read through the thread about backups for low-end users, and I'm sorry I wasn't around to participate in the lively discussion in real time! Pretty much everything I would have said has been addressed by others, but just a couple of comments... On the cost of backup systems: You might plausibly spend $600-700 on a full 3-hard-drive backup system with Retrospect, that's true (although I do cover plenty of less-expensive alternatives in the ebook). I understand that this seems like a lot of money compared to the cost of low-end computers. But if the data on your computer isn't worth $600, then it doesn't need much of a backup; just make duplicates onto DVD-R or whatever and be done with it. The thing is, I think very few of us would be willing to say our data is worth so little, when you consider time spent rebuilding it, photos you'll never see again, work hours lost, and so on. On the needs of "low-end" users: The way I think about it, either you need to back up your data or you don't; if you do, you either do or do not need duplicates or archives as I describe them. (And honestly, I don't think any backup strategy that includes neither duplicates nor archives is worth much.) If you do need either, then there is no escaping at least an initial period of learning how to set something up. As Adam pointed out, Maxtor can give you one-touch backups, and if you set up a schedule--really not difficult at all--then you get zero-touch backups. Sure, you're going to have to spend an hour or two setting things up, but that seems like a very reasonable amount of effort considering the return. If someone is too tech-averse to do this (even with the help of an ebook), then I'd suggest recruiting a friend or relative to do the setup. The impression I've gotten is that some people just want inexpensive, reliable, and idiot-proof backups. I don't think there's any such thing. Pick any two, maybe. What I've tried to provide in my ebook is the best compromise among all these things (for almost any type of user) by describing the trade-offs in time, money, effort and reliability of various hardware, software, and strategic options. But unfortunately there's no magic bullet. Cheers, Joe == Joe Kissell
Curator of Interesting Things
Interesting Thing of the Day < http://itotd.com/>
New & Improved Home Page & Blog < http://alt.cc/jk/>
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jwblist (apparently)
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Jan 5, 2005 12:32 pm
(#29 Total: 32)
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
On 1/4/2005 14:36, "Chris Pepper" <pepper reppep.com> wrote:
> Trade with a friend you trust? Two Macs with broadband and
> free disk space should do the trick. You can back up ~nick to a
> normal (unprivileged) account on a Mac OS X (or UNIX/Linux) system,
> but to back up a bootable system you'd need root access to the remote
> machine.
Note that some "broadband" connections will be disappointing for this.
Cable here was, as I bought it, 1.5mbit down, 256kbit up (deliberately
limited to keep servers from cropping up at consumer and low-end business
rates. Higher uploads were available with the higher priced business
accounts.
It sounds like a good solution given suitable connections (such as my DSL,
which gives me 1.2 meg down (same as the cable connection actually was) and
about 800kbits up--for $28 per month to the phone company.
Unfortunately, I can't justify the 7mbit DSL connection I *could* have.
--John
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rbtmorgan (apparently)
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Jan 17, 2005 11:40 am
(#30 Total: 32)
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
Discussion of backups usually focuses on how and when, not on what.
This thread is no exception. The process of backing up can be
intimidating to a non-expert user. It certainly is for me. This topic
is worthy of a chapter in Take Control of Backups, but does not seem to
be addressed at all.
[Sure it does - see page 17, for instance. The reason it isn't worth more coverage is that the short answer is that you should back up as much as possible because if you try to decide exactly what's worth backing up, you become a weak point in the chain. The more you back up, the less likely you are to lose something, and that's the entire point of having a backup to start with. -Adam]
Clearly you should back up documents, photos, music and any other
content you have created or downloaded. Even that can be relatively
complex, since your photos are in nested folders and may even be stored
outside of iPhoto. Then there is your personalization of various apps
such as Safari bookmarks, iCal entries, address book in Mail, internet
settings, Word templates, and more. Add to that applications you have
downloaded, and perhaps updated. For some you may need to back up only
the update, others you need to back up both the original app and the
update. And what version do you archive - sit file, dmg, or the app
itself? There are valuable files that you change unknowingly in your
Library, such as preferences, that should be archived to save time in
reconstructing your computer in case of a massive failure. I have no
idea which ones are important and don't know of a resource to guide me.
What to restore in case of a complete or partial meltdown, and the
appropriate sequence to follow, is a different issue that also needs to
be addressed. As someone suggested, an Apple-ization of the entire
backup and restore process would be welcome. It is outrageous that
neither Apple nor Microsoft have good backup software included with
their operating systems, with easy to follow documentation and
automatic reminders.
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charlie_franklin
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Mar 13, 2005 11:58 pm
(#31 Total: 32)
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
I've just finished going through the updated version of the Take Control of Backups, and I want to congratulate Joe on addressing my initial concerns. Table 2 at the front of the book now clearly gives a recommendation that seems appropriate for low end users.
One point of clarification. Joe suggests that contributors on this discussion were looking for a backup solution that was cheap, good and fast, but as he rightly points out, you can probably only manage two of these. From my point of view, I was trying to make the point that for us low end users of backup, we would probably trade the fast for cheap. Still I think the point does need to be made in the e-book.
The other point is a possible error in the text. In Table 2, Joe recommends Impression as software for a cheap system, but on page 56 he recommends Data Backup for people on a budget. This either needs correcting, or some clarification text to explain the difference in recommendation.
Otherwise, a great book now, and one I can wholly recommend to friends.
Charlie
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Joe Kissell
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Mar 14, 2005 2:02 pm
(#32 Total: 32)
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Re: Take Control of Backups for low end users
Charlie wrote: The other point is a possible error in the text. In Table 2, Joe recommends Impression as software for a cheap system, but on page 56 he recommends Data Backup for people on a budget. This either needs correcting, or some clarification text to explain the difference in recommendation. Table 2 lists Impression because it's the least expensive (at $25) of the duplication + archiving apps discussed that has a reasonable enough feature set and user interface that I can feel comfortable recommending it generally--and at that point in the ebook, cost was the primary issue. But Impression is a significant step down in capabilities from Data Backup (which is more expensive, at $59). In the context where I later suggested Data Backup as a cost-saving option, I was trying to compare its price to that of Retrospect ($129), not by any means saying it's the cheapest. I hope that helps. Cheers, Joe == Joe Kissell
Curator of Interesting Things
Interesting Thing of the Day < http://itotd.com/>
Home Page & Blog < http://alt.cc/jk/>
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