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Buying an iPhone 3G

[Forkosh, Alan]Alan Forkosh (apparently) - 07:31am Jul 14, 2008 PST
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I joined the mob buying an iPhone 3G on Saturday afternoon. Here are
some notes on the experience:

The line appeared fairly short, spanning about 3 storefronts in
downtown Walnut Creek, CA. However, it took about 4 hours to actually
get into the store and purchase an phone. Shortly after I joined the
queue, an store employee walked down the line and informed us that
they were out of black 16 Gig models but had a good stock of the other
2 models. A bit later, another employee took of census of what people
were intending to buy. We assumed that if inventory was doubtful, they
would have warned us shortly afterwards. Also, employees twice offered
bottled water to those of us waiting and a local restaurant passed out
menus and offered to deliver. The people around me were quite friendly
as we discussed phones, options, and life.

When I got to the head of the line, I observed that only a small
portion of the store was reserved for phone buying with red-shirted
employees at the door letting those in with other business (I went by
another store on Sunday and there were separate lines for iPhones and
normal business). I was eventually escorted in by an employee who
asked me which model I wanted (again informing me that there were out
of black 16's. He also asked if I was interested in a case and quickly
determined my general billing status status (current iPhone owner with
AT&T). WHen he returned with the iPhone, he started the processing on
the handheld processor that Apple Stores use for payment. All was
going well (he did wnat to see a picture ID and the last 4-digits of
my SSN were asked for) until he checked my account and saw a notice
that he suspected arose from a corporate account. I told him that I
had had a discount from Cingular and AT&T given to employees of my
company but had to forego it when I got the iPhone. Apparently,
however, the relationship (but not the discount) were still noted on
my account. It took 2 phone calls and a wait on hold to resolve this
with AT&T. From his manner, I could tell that I was not the first
person with that problem that he had processed. I've seen other
reports of similar things happening (cell phone companies had been
quite generous with corporate discounts), and this could have
accounted for a good part of the slowdown in processing. I lay this
one on lousy record-keeping at AT&T.

After getting that resolved, processing went smoothly. I was again
able to keep my current voice plan (that is more limited and cheaper
than any currently available plan). After processing my credit card,
we went over to an iMac with a iPod docking cable to activate the phone.

I should note that, as I had predicted earlier, the sales tax of 8.25%
was based on the unsubsidized price of the phone ($499 rather than
$299) and came in at an effective rate of 13.77% instead. It was noted
that the activation fee of $18 will appear on next AT&T bill.

Alan Forkosh Oakland, CA
aforkoshmac.com




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David Weintraub - Jul 14, 2008 7:32 am (#1 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

I understand why AT&T wants to subsidize these phones, but Apple must have known that they were setting themselves up for long delays.

Why didn't AT&T offer a $200 rebate upon activation instead of making the iPhone $200 cheaper? The result would have been the same and people would be able to use the old way of activating the iPhone

-- David Weintraub qazwartgmail.com

Lewis Butler (apparently) - Jul 15, 2008 3:51 am (#2 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On 14-Jul-2008, at 09:32, David Weintraub wrote:
> I understand why AT&T wants to subsidize these phones, but Apple
> must have known that they were setting themselves up for long delays.
>
> Why didn't AT&T offer a $200 rebate upon activation instead of
> making the iPhone $200 cheaper? The result would have been the same
> and people would be able to use the old way of activating the iPhone

Because they don't want anyone buying an iPhone that doesn't sign on
to AT&T's plan.

This change has completely eliminated any chance of my getting an
iPhone since I absolutely refuse to give my SS# to anyone who isn't
paying me a salary.

butchfag (apparently) - Jul 15, 2008 3:51 am (#3 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 11:32 AM, David Weintraub <qazwartgmail.com> wrote:
> I understand why AT&T wants to subsidize these phones, but Apple must have known that they were setting themselves up for long delays.
>
> Why didn't AT&T offer a $200 rebate upon activation instead of making the iPhone $200 cheaper? The result would have been the same and people would be able to use the old way of activating the iPhone

Because the secondary intention is to discourage black marketing of
the phones to overseas users...

Christopher Appell
BPG Europe

bperrey (apparently) - Jul 15, 2008 9:06 am (#4 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G




LewisGmail wrote:
> On 14-Jul-2008, at 09:32, David Weintraub wrote:
>> I understand why AT&T wants to subsidize these phones, but Apple
>> must have known that they were setting themselves up for long delays.
>>
>> Why didn't AT&T offer a $200 rebate upon activation instead of
>> making the iPhone $200 cheaper? The result would have been the sameand
>> people would be able to use the old way of activating the iPhone
>
> Because they don't want anyone buying an iPhone that doesn't sign on
> to AT&T's plan.
>
> This change has completely eliminated any chance of my getting an
> iPhone since I absolutely refuse to give my SS# to anyone who isn't
> paying me a salary.

Only the last four digits of the Social Security number are taken when
purchasing the iPhone 3G.

Bob Perrey

ShawnKing (apparently) - Jul 16, 2008 3:59 am (#5 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G





On 7/15/08 1:06 PM, "Bob Perrey" <bperreysbcglobal.net> wrote:

>> This change has completely eliminated any chance of my getting an
>> iPhone since I absolutely refuse to give my SS# to anyone who isn't
>> paying me a salary.
>
> Only the last four digits of the Social Security number are taken when
> purchasing the iPhone 3G.

But *no* digits should be required, should they? It's just a phone, not
National Security...

--
Shawn King

Lewis Butler (apparently) - Jul 16, 2008 3:59 am (#6 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On 15-Jul-2008, at 11:06, Bob Perrey wrote:
> Only the last four digits of the Social Security number are taken when
> purchasing the iPhone 3G.

I believe that is only true if you already have an AT&T account.

John C. Welch (apparently) - Jul 17, 2008 3:24 am (#7 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On 7/16/08 7:59 AM, "Shawn King" <shawnyourmaclifeshow.com> wrote:

>>> This change has completely eliminated any chance of my getting an
>>> iPhone since I absolutely refuse to give my SS# to anyone who isn't
>>> paying me a salary.
>>
>> Only the last four digits of the Social Security number are taken when
>> purchasing the iPhone 3G.
>
> But *no* digits should be required, should they? It's just a phone, not
> National Security...

If you have to do a credit check, there's not many ways to do a proper one
that DON'T involve the SSN. Right or wrong, that's kind of how it is.

--
John C. Welch


Michael Krzyzek (apparently) - Jul 17, 2008 3:24 am (#8 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:59 AM, Shawn King <shawnyourmaclifeshow.com> wrote:
> On 7/15/08 1:06 PM, "Bob Perrey" <bperreysbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>>> This change has completely eliminated any chance of my getting an
>>> iPhone since I absolutely refuse to give my SS# to anyone who isn't
>>> paying me a salary.
>>
>> Only the last four digits of the Social Security number are taken when
>> purchasing the iPhone 3G.
>
> But *no* digits should be required, should they? It's just a phone, not
> National Security...
>

This is a reply to both Shawn King and Bob Perrey. The SSN requirement
has nothing to do with National Security or Privacy Invasion. It does
have everything to do with credit checks. If you are under a current
contract with AT&T I'm sure the last four digits will do. On the other
hand if you are not then AT&T (and all US cell carriers as far as I
know) want to run a credit check to determine if you have the
ability/will from your past credit history to fulfill the life of the
contract. They want to make sure they recoup the subsidy and can make
a profit on giving you service. It was required with the original
iPhone even without a subsidy.

Credit checks are commonplace anytime you enter into some form of
payment plan with another party, be it renting an apartment or buying
a car. Bob if you have the means to be able to refuse to give out your
SSN then I'm happy for you. But for most people this is just not
possible and hasn't been for a very long time.

--
Michael

Bob Williams (apparently) - Jul 17, 2008 3:24 am (#9 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 04:51, LewisGmail <gkremegmail.com> wrote:
> This change has completely eliminated any chance of my getting an
> iPhone since I absolutely refuse to give my SS# to anyone who isn't
> paying me a salary.

In my case, the Apple Store employee let me type the number myself,
and she even covered that area of the display when she looked to see
the processing status (I was there on the first day, when things
really ground to a halt). Once the credit check was actually
processing, the display cleared, and only then did she take back the
EasyPay unit. It was a simple gesture that I appreciated.

--
Bob Williams
TriVectus, LC

Nigel Stanger (apparently) - Jul 17, 2008 3:47 am (#10 Total: 14)  

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via email - Dunedin, New Zealand  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On 16/07/2008 11:59 PM, "Shawn King" <shawnyourmaclifeshow.com> spake thus:

> But *no* digits should be required, should they? It's just a phone, not
> National Security...

They wouldn't get away with it in New Zealand: our Privacy Act stipulates
that organisations may only collect information that is relevant to their
purposes. We don't have SS numbers of course; the nearest equivalent would
be the tax ID number, I suppose. Certainly if my cell provider tried asking
me for that, I would quite rightly tell them that it's none of their damn
business.

--
Nigel Stanger, Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND.
http://xri.net/=nigel.stanger


bperrey (apparently) - Jul 18, 2008 3:53 am (#11 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G




Michael Krzyzek wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:59 AM, Shawn King <shawnyourmaclifeshow.com> wrote:
>> On 7/15/08 1:06 PM, "Bob Perrey" <bperreysbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> This change has completely eliminated any chance of my getting an
>>>> iPhone since I absolutely refuse to give my SS# to anyone who isn't
>>>> paying me a salary.
>>> Only the last four digits of the Social Security number are taken when
>>> purchasing the iPhone 3G.
>> But *no* digits should be required, should they? It's just a phone, not
>> National Security...
>>
>
> This is a reply to both Shawn King and Bob Perrey. The SSN requirement
> has nothing to do with National Security or Privacy Invasion. It does
> have everything to do with credit checks. If you are under a current
> contract with AT&T I'm sure the last four digits will do. On the other
> hand if you are not then AT&T (and all US cell carriers as far as I
> know) want to run a credit check to determine if you have the
> ability/will from your past credit history to fulfill the life of the
> contract. They want to make sure they recoup the subsidy and can make
> a profit on giving you service. It was required with the original
> iPhone even without a subsidy.
>
> Credit checks are commonplace anytime you enter into some form of
> payment plan with another party, be it renting an apartment or buying
> a car. Bob if you have the means to be able to refuse to give out your
> SSN then I'm happy for you. But for most people this is just not
> possible and hasn't been for a very long time.

The last four digits serve as an identifier for your ATT account, on the
presumption that only the bearer knows those digits. (Might not be
true.) ATT does not do a credit check on one who already has an ATT
account, as any owner of the first iPhone has such an account. In the
case of updating to a 3G, the digits help verify the application. I
never said I did not give out those four digits. I don't mind giving
those as an ID challenge. They're useless for anything else. I suppose
the only reason the last four digits are asked for is that technically,
it is not legal to ask for the entire number for this purpose.

Bob Perrey

John C. Welch (apparently) - Jul 18, 2008 3:53 am (#12 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On 7/17/08 7:47 AM, "Nigel Stanger" <NStangerinfoscience.otago.ac.nz>
wrote:

>> But *no* digits should be required, should they? It's just a phone, not
>> National Security...
>
> They wouldn't get away with it in New Zealand: our Privacy Act stipulates
> that organisations may only collect information that is relevant to their
> purposes. We don't have SS numbers of course; the nearest equivalent would
> be the tax ID number, I suppose. Certainly if my cell provider tried asking
> me for that, I would quite rightly tell them that it's none of their damn
> business.

It all depends on how you track credit. In the US, credit info is tied to
the SSN.

--
John C. Welch

Curtis Wilcox (apparently) - Jul 18, 2008 3:53 am (#13 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On Jul 17, 2008, at 7:24 AM, Michael Krzyzek wrote:

> Credit checks are commonplace anytime you enter into some form of
> payment plan with another party, be it renting an apartment or buying
> a car.

But in this case it's not a payment plan, you're signing up for a
service for which you'll pay each month, in advance. If you don't pay,
they can cut you off. The only thing you're receiving in advance is
the iPhone at a subsidized rate, an expense which is at least a couple
of orders of magnitude lower than an apartment or car (which are also
paid monthly but are not so easily reclaimed if repayment stops).

When my wife got her first cel phone contract a few years ago, Verizon
screwed up her credit check somehow and insisted she give them a $125
deposit which they would return in the form of credit on her account a
year later (it was a 2 year contract). We weren't happy about it but
taking a deposit in lieu of a credit check seems reasonable. Or, to
more closely tie it to the iPhone, have the customer pay the
unsubsidized amount for the phone up-front then discount their monthly
bill for the difference over the course of the year. People give up
some privacy to save money regularly (store "loyalty" cards, for
instance), why not have the option to pay a little more to preserve it?


Lewis Butler (apparently) - Jul 20, 2008 11:37 am (#14 Total: 14)  

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Re: Buying an iPhone 3G

On 17-Jul-2008, at 05:24, Michael Krzyzek wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 4:59 AM, Shawn King
> <shawnyourmaclifeshow.com> wrote:
>> On 7/15/08 1:06 PM, "Bob Perrey" <bperreysbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> This change has completely eliminated any chance of my getting an
>>>> iPhone since I absolutely refuse to give my SS# to anyone who isn't
>>>> paying me a salary.
>>>
>>> Only the last four digits of the Social Security number are taken
>>> when
>>> purchasing the iPhone 3G.
>>
>> But *no* digits should be required, should they? It's just a phone,
>> not
>> National Security...
>>
>
> This is a reply to both Shawn King and Bob Perrey. The SSN requirement
> has nothing to do with National Security or Privacy Invasion. It does
> have everything to do with credit checks. If you are under a current
> contract with AT&T I'm sure the last four digits will do. On the other
> hand if you are not then AT&T (and all US cell carriers as far as I
> know) want to run a credit check to determine if you have the
> ability/will from your past credit history to fulfill the life of the
> contract. They want to make sure they recoup the subsidy and can make
> a profit on giving you service. It was required with the original
> iPhone even without a subsidy.

Tmobile took my Tax ID Number, Cingular and Veriscum insisted I had to
give them my SSN (this was quite a few years ago). This is part of
the reason I went with Tmobile.

> Credit checks are commonplace anytime you enter into some form of
> payment plan with another party, be it renting an apartment or buying
> a car. Bob if you have the means to be able to refuse to give out your
> SSN then I'm happy for you. But for most people this is just not
> possible and hasn't been for a very long time.

Because of the way that banks operate, giving someone your SSN is
tantamount to giving them permission to do anything they want to you,
at any time. It is treated as if it was some super secure piece of
data, when of course it is not. Getting a SSN on someone means you
can steal their identity to the point where they end up having to get
a new SSN. Handing it over to someone with the ethical track-record of
a cell phone carrier seems to me to be just about as secure as posting
it on your blog.



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