Quicken equivalents...

On Jun 13, 2008, at 10:59 AM, Adam C. Engst wrote:

> Let's move this to a new thread - I know Kevin uses Moneydance, and
> there are a number of others like Liquid Ledger and iBank.

PERSONAL FINANCE PROGRAMS

EasyMoney $20
http://www.ttpsoftware.com/Products/easymoney.html

iBank $40
http://www.iggsoftware.com/ibank/

MoneyDance $40
http://www.moneydance.com/

BudgetfM $15
http://www.budget-software.de/

Budget $30
http://www.snowmintcs.com/

Finance $20
http://www.yenco.com/
http://www.yenco.com/finance/index.html

iCash $40
http://www.maxprog.com
http://www.maxprog.com/iCash.html

Money $25
http://www.jumsoft.com/money/

My Money Minder $12.50
http://www.geocities.com/ben_blake1/index.html
http://www.geocities.com/ben_blake1/mymoneyminder.html

MYOB FirstEdge $99
http://www.myob.com/us/products/firstedge/

QuickFinance $24
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/4959
http://quickfinance-mac.com/

Liquid Ledger $45
http://www.liquidledger.com/

Checkbook Rec $9
http://www.cornerstonedesigns.biz/

Finance 101 (part of Small Business Software) - Business & Personal
Finance Software $199
http://www.programs101.com/finance-101.html

CheckBook $18
http://www.splasm.com/products/productcheckbook.html

Cocoa Account and Cocoa Account Plus FREE
http://homepage.mac.com/tonyswu/tonyswu/computer/cocoa.html
http://homepage.mac.com/tonyswu/tonyswu/computer/works/cocoa/caccount/
index.html
http://homepage.mac.com/tonyswu/tonyswu/computer/works/cocoa/cap/

Conto FREE
http://www.dimi.uniud.it/~vitacolo/macosx.html

GnuCash (via Fink and X11) FREE and open source
http://homepage.mac.com/elliottmce/gnucash_guide/
http://www.gnucash.org/
http://svn.gnucash.org/docs/guide/

SpendThrift FREE
http://blackllamafaction.org/spendthrift/
http://blackllamafaction.org/archives/cat_software.html

Hold-Up FREE, open source
http://www.pol-online.net/hold_up/us_home.html

QuickFinance $24
http://www.tucows.com/get/204805_87575

Cha-Ching $40
http://www.chachingapp.com/
http://www.midnightapps.com/

Horizon $30
http://lucernesys.com/

iCompta (FREE, donations welcome)
http://angeman7.free.fr/iCompta/?language=en

jGnash FREE and open source
http://jgnash.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Cash Forecaster (donations requested)
http://www.object-craft.com.au/projects/macosxutils/cashforecaster.html

Buddi (donation requested)
http://buddi.thecave.homeunix.org/en

Burn FREE
http://www.blackholemedia.com/burn/

My Checkbook $20
http://www.surprisesoftware.com/mycheckbook/?
gclid=CMLo8NWe7ZICFQQIFQodoSxT4g

Balance FREE, donations accepted
http://www.stanford.edu/~mhdavids/cs193e/balance.html

Bankbook FREE
http://www.silverstreaksoftware.com/bankbook.html

Flowing Pennies $25
http://www.clarkwood.com/flowingpennies/

Fresh Finance $30
http://www.fortora.com/ffmac/

CashBox (donations requested)
http://www.fadingred.org/cashbox/

Randy B. Singer • Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

Hi,

A great list Randy, but you missed out my favourite:

MoneyWell <http://nothirst.com/moneywell/>

It takes a different approach from packages such as Quicken and iBank and I find it particularly strong at helping with sticking to a budget. Kevin Hoctor is a very responsive developer too, so I'd suggest that you give it a look Adam.

Karen

--On June 14, 2008 1:23:06 AM -0700 "Randy B. Singer"
<randymacattorney.com> wrote:

>
> PERSONAL FINANCE PROGRAMS
>

The number of times this has come up on the list I typically see the
following reasons for sticking with Quicken:

1) I want online transactions and bank only supports Quicken (and by
online, i mean direct download into the program, not download a file and
import it)
2) I have xx years of data and if i move it has to come over easily

Anybody have ideas on how the products listed perform in the areas listed?

For #1 I know many banks just say Quicken support when they actually work
with other programs as well. Moneydance has a partial list published of
banks they work with (although they mix in the "download a file and import"
variety too)

For #2 I think a big problem is the QIF export format from Quicken.
Apparently it is very lacking in completeness? Can Quicken export to OFX,
which is a better interchange format? I think if a lot of effort is put
into the import of QIF a lot of issues can be overcome so surely some
programs do very well at this.

Kevin

The feature that I most need is the ability to actually print checks. Not just a register and budget program. Do you know which of those listed have check printing capability?

Ken

There was a program by Bert Torfs called Wheredidallmymoneygo which was in development for years. Pretty user unfriendly, but seemed to be quite powerful. I tried it for a while, but found it too un-maclike.

I see that Fast Forward software has a program called Finance To Go on their website. It seems to be the latest incarnation with a proper OS X look. It uses double entry accounting, which may put some folks off.

Haven't tried it yet myself. If anybody has, please let us know how it has turned out.

<http://fastforwardsw.com/products/financetogo/>

Last time I looked at Personal Finance software (around 2002), there were very few which were any good which weren't dollar specific. I ended up buying a localised (UK) version of Quicken and Virtual PC to run it on. A truly horrible and expensive experience which has put me off PC emulation/virtualisation/whatever for life.

It's been Excel spreadsheets all the way ever since. Which are not really adequate.

I was amazed by the length of Randy's list. Without me having to go through them all one by one, can anyone recommend which ones work natively in sterling?

Thanks.

I prefer to think of them as "Quicken Replacements" over "Quicken Equivalents". Quicken is the 800 pound gorilla of personal finance software with tons of features most people rarely if ever use. In my experience, Quicken had some difficulty making the transition to a well behaved Mac OS X citizen.

I tried a number of alternatives and settled on Liquid Ledger because it imported my 10 years of Quicken history smoothly and did what I needed. That was 2.5 years ago and I haven't been disappointed.

As far as I can tell, no single program has achieved a dominant position to rival Quicken in this space, but there are several good alternatives. Anyone disappointed with Quicken might be well served by one of them. I would describe Liquid Ledger as solid, not the most flashy, but with an elegant Mac OS X UI.

Enjoy!

- Peter

FYI for anyone interested in FirstEdge...

cheers... -Adam


--- begin forwarded text

From: Ed Sherry
Subject: TidBITS - Quicken equivalents...
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 09:44:42 -0700

Hello Mr. Engst,

Ed Sherry from MYOB US. I appreciate your including FirstEdge in the
"Quicken equivalents" topic on TidBITS Talk.

Since the management buyout of MYOB US, Inc. (we're now Acclivity dba
MYOB US), the MYOB US Web site moved to
<http://www.myob-us.com>http://www.myob-us.com.

FirstEdge can be found
at <http://www.myob-us.com/firstedge/>http://www.myob-us.com/firstedge/<http://emperor.tidbits.com/TidBITS/Talk/2037>

Thanks again for the mention.

Best Wishes,

-Ed

==

Ed Sherry
Marketing Communications Coordinator
<mailto:ed.sherrymyob-us.com>300 Roundhill Drive
Rockaway, NJ 07866

--- end forwarded text



--
Look into my head; follow me on Twitter. http://twitter.com/adamengst
_____________________________________________________________________
Adam C. Engst: I publish TidBITS and Take Control, write books,
acetidbits.com and make useful introductions in the Mac industry.
My work: http://www.tidbits.com/ and http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 3:32 PM, Kevin van Haaren <kevinvanhaaren.net> wrote:
>
> 1) I want online transactions and bank only supports Quicken (and by
> online, i mean direct download into the program, not download a file and
> import it)

I've found Moneydance to be far more compatible in this situation than
Quicken. The problem is that Intuit has coerced the financial
institutions into agreements that call for paying separately to
support Mac and Windows in data downloads, even though the only thing
different is the name of the platform in the header. Most institutions
only pay for the Windows support, so the Mac version of Quicken
refuses to process the data. It's truly a false limitation -- one that
Moneydance pays no attention. Thus, Moneydance tends to work with many
"Windows-only" institutions.

My only reservation with doing this is that I fear making the banks
think there is a higher percentage of Win Quicken users than there
really is, and thus end up making the situation worse. Sort of like
sending a Win IE referer header from your Mac browser to get around
stupid browser sniffers.

All that said, it's definitely not flawless. For example, I can't get
Moneydance to properly download data from my Bank of America accounts,
nor from my Chase accounts. On a good note, it works flawlessly with
American Express, which is just one of many reasons why they get over
90% of my transactions accounting for well over 99% of my outgoing
money. (To those merchants who don't take Amex, know that I'm unlikely
to buy from you. And I'm not alone...)

--
Bob Williams
TriVectus, LC

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 3:37 PM, kencom <kencomearthlink.net> wrote:
> The feature that I most need is the ability to actually print checks.

Moneydance will print checks. I've never actually tried to do so, however.

BTW, another option is the revamped Quicken Online, which is a
web-based solution that specifically supports the Mac (and iPhone). My
understanding is that it's not as capable as the desktop version, but
works well enough if your financial picture isn't too complicated.
When I looked at it, it seemed to support a different set of
institutions than the desktop version, which probably means they're
charging for a third platform license. On the other hand, if an
institution is supported for Windows, it should be equally supported
for the Mac.

--
Bob Williams
TriVectus, LC

On Tue, Jun 17, 2008 at 3:37 PM, iainboyd <iainmaplescombe.com> wrote:
> Without me having to go through them all one by one, can anyone recommend which ones work natively in sterling?

I've only really worked in USD, but judging by the docs, Moneydance's
support for multiple currencies seems quite flexible.

--
Bob Williams
TriVectus, LC

At 15:37 06/17/08 -0700, iainboyd wrote:
>can anyone recommend which ones work natively in sterling?

Moneydance basically works in any currency, and seems to be popular with
people who need to work in multiple currencies.

At 15:37 06/17/08 -0700, kencom wrote:
>Do you know which of those listed have check printing capability?

Moneydance does.

At 15:32 06/17/08 -0700, Kevin van Haaren wrote:
>For #1 I know many banks just say Quicken support when they actually work
>with other programs as well. Moneydance has a partial list published of
>banks they work with (although they mix in the "download a file and import"
>variety too)

For specifics you can join the moneydance-info mailing list. (There's also
a Yahoo list, but moneydance-info tends to be more active and more
technical, plus you don't have to deal with the horrid Yahoo munging of
replies.) Certainly there is constant discussion of online problems, but
whether it's any worse than for Quicken users, I can't say. Sean Reilly,
the Moneydance developer, often responds on the list regarding online
issues and works to resolve connection issues.

>For #2 I think a big problem is the QIF export format from Quicken.
>Apparently it is very lacking in completeness? Can Quicken export to OFX,
>which is a better interchange format? I think if a lot of effort is put
>into the import of QIF a lot of issues can be overcome so surely some
>programs do very well at this.

No amount of effort at export to QIF will help. The problem is in the
format itself. QIF has no concept of complete two-sided transactions, so
exporting to QIF involves splitting each transaction into two
half-transactions with no link. Then the importing program has to match up
these half-transactions. This works OK for simple transactions but fails
miserably for complex split transactions.

When I was first forced to move from Mac to Windows, I first tried moving
my Quicken data to Windows Quicken. This was a disaster for three reasons.
First, QWin is a totally different program; Quicken is not a cross-platform
program, just a cross-platform name. I hated the Windows UI as much as I
liked the Mac UI, and the file formats are incompatible. Second, I could
not put my laptop to sleep with Quicken running -- "Quicken does not
support sleep mode". HUH??? Only time I've EVER seen that. Third, the only
way to move data is by QIF, and it simply doesn't work -- in even
moderately complex cases, it just falls flat on its face. Moneydance did a
far better job of importing my Quicken QIF dumps than did Quicken itself --
not perfect, but it took me hours to fix up, whereas fixing up the Quicken
import would have taken weeks.

As I've said before, Moneydance has some rough edges. Reporting is
definitely not its strong point. But getting out from under Intuit's thumb
has been worth all the rough edges. And I'm not saying anything against any
of the other programs on Randy's list; I don't know anything about them.

Edward
--
Art works by Melynda Reid: http://paleo.org

At 15:37 on 17-06-2008, tonybull wrote:
> I see that Fast Forward software has a program called Finance To Go
> on their website.

As you guessed, this is the latest incarnation of
WhereDidAllMyMoneyGo (WDAMMG -- what a name!). Bert Torfs still
develops it, but it is published by Fast Forward now. I've used
WDAMMG for many years, including in its latest incarnation as Finance
To Go. However, I haven't used it in a few months (because I'm behind
on my paperwork!) so some of my comments might be outdated.

The interface in Finance To Go is definitely improved over WDAMMG
though I find it still a bit rough in spots. But it is a very
powerful application. Because it uses proper double-entry accounting,
if you set up your accounts, etc. properly you have great flexibility
in how you display and review your transactions. Finance To Go is
also built as a multi-currency app, so not only does it work well
with sterling (to answer one of the questions that came up), but it
works very well if you have accounts in two (or three, four, etc)
currencies. And the double-entry accounting and multi-currency
capabilities means that it can elegantly track stocks as well.

At the time I chose WDAMMG, I evaluated all the shareware options
(which were much fewer back then -- 4 or 5 I think). Other apps are
slicker from an interface standpoint (and continue to be). But the
double-entry accounting methods in Finance To Go can't be beat; ditto
for its multi-currency abilities.

I would say that it's worth reading the manual/tutorial before
setting up your accounts. While it takes a bit of time to rtfm,
getting to grips with the concepts definitely pays off in the long
run. And we should be thankful that there's an app with such
extensive documentation!

As a final note, the developer (Bert Torfs) is responsive and
generous (I emailed asking how to pay for an upgrade from WDAMMG to
Finance To Go and he provided one for free!). So because of the
robust accounting system and quality support, I'm willing to accept
the programme's rough edges. And, to be clear, I have no connection
with Bert or Fast Forward other than as a user of WDAMMG for several
years.

_________________
=> Jolin

Hi Iain,

You wrote:

It's been Excel spreadsheets all the way ever since. Which are not really adequate.

I was amazed by the length of Randy's list. Without me having to go through them all one by one, can anyone recommend which ones work natively in sterling?

The suite of accounting software from Cognito Software (www.cognito.co.nz) --CashWorks & MoneyWorks -- was not on Randy's list. As a UK user you should consider either of those two packages -- especially as these work with all currencies & your VAT regime is well supported.

Hope that helps,

John Wolff

Hamilton, New Zealand