Apple Announces iPhone 3G to Ship on 11-Jul-08

On 6/12/08 1:17 PM, "John W Baxter" <johnbaxterlistsmac.com> wrote:

>> Yes to both.
>
> However, I think I remember hearing about new processing software for
> the camera images.

You are correct.

> So the results could well be quite different.

Yes - they will be a little less crappy. :)

--
Shawn King

On Thu, 12 Jun 2008, Shawn King wrote:

> On 6/11/08 4:39 PM, "Chris Devers" <cdeverspobox.com> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 11 Jun 2008, Alan Forkosh wrote:
> >
> >> One thing left out of the announced plan is that it no longer includes
> >> SMS messaging. That will be an extra cost option.
> >
> > But just to be clear, original iPhone users are grandfathered in, right?
> >
> > I'd assume they get the contract they started with for the full two
> > years, including the $20/month fee and 200 messages/month.
> >
> > But I wouldn't put it past AT&T to try to change the terms on us...
>
> If you buy a new phone, you get a new contract with AT&T. So yes, your
> terms are going to be different.

Right, sorry, I meant steady iPhone v1 owners, not v1->v2 upgraders.

Again, I wouldn't expect it to change -- we're under contract after all.

But I wouldn't put it past AT&T to try to change the terms.


--
Chris Devers

On Thu, Jun 12, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Alexander Hoffman <ahoffmanaledev.com> wrote:
> At 1:39 PM -0700 6/11/08, Shawn King wrote:
> So, this prompts a possible heretical question from me: why bother
> upgrading.

Yeah that is exactly where I am at. I really have no reason to upgrade
to the iPhone3G. Faster downloads while out and about? Well ok but I
haven't been bothered by my current speeds. GPS? Well I really don't
need that. I'm going to probably wait for next years model which
should be close to when my AT&T contract is up. What I'm mostly
interested in right now is the 2.0 software.

--
Michael

On Jun 12, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:

> And whatever became of the promised-in-10.5 but never delivered notes
> syncing?

I don't recall Apple promising note syncing in 10.5. I remember
bloggers expecting it.

   --John

On 6/12/08 1:17 PM, "Alexander Hoffman" <ahoffmanaledev.com> wrote:

> So, this prompts a possible heretical question from me: why bother upgrading.

For someone like you, you shouldn't. There's no law that says you have to.
:)

--
Shawn King

On 13 Jun 2008, at 11:28, John W Baxter wrote:

> I don't recall Apple promising note syncing in 10.5. I remember
> bloggers expecting it.

It also looks painfully obvious. Notes are headline feature of Leopard
Mail. They're an iPhone feature, too. And yet you can't sync them?
Duh? Without syncing, iPhone notes are pretty well useless. Non-one I
know uses them, or Mail's notes for that matter. They're a non-
feature. People send themselves emails instead, or write things down
on paper.

Kind regards

Paul Ellis

On 13-Jun-2008, at 04:28, Shawn King wrote:
> On 6/12/08 1:17 PM, "Alexander Hoffman" <ahoffmanaledev.com> wrote:
>
>> So, this prompts a possible heretical question from me: why bother
>> upgrading.
>
> For someone like you, you shouldn't. There's no law that says you
> have to.

And I doubt that most people will upgrade. Those that really care
about the speed and who are in a 3G area, sure. But really the big
upgrade is the 2.0 SDK, and everyone gets that.

On Fri, 13 Jun 2008, John W Baxter wrote:

> On Jun 12, 2008, at 10:17 AM, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:
>
> > And whatever became of the promised-in-10.5 but never delivered
> > notes syncing?
>
> I don't recall Apple promising note syncing in 10.5. I remember
> bloggers expecting it.

If memory serves, it was on the official "Leopard features" page from
WWDC right up until just before the release date, then disappeared and
was never mentioned in the shipping version.

Kind of like network Time Machine backups, which finally got reinstated
with 10.5.2. The hope then is that Notes sync will be back, too.

Speaking of which, is it me or did the MobileMe sync features fail to
mention bookmark sync, whic .Mac & the iPhone have had for a while now?
Is that actually getting dropped, and if so, what would that mean? Will
it stop working between an iPhone and a computer if you don't have a
MobileMe account? Won't it keep working if you keep the 1.x software?
Does it go away in the 2.x software?


--
Chris Devers

At 3:28 AM -0700 6/13/08, Shawn King wrote:
> > So, this prompts a possible heretical question from me: why
>bother upgrading.
>
>For someone like you, you shouldn't. There's no law that says you have to.
>:)

"Someone like [me]"!? What are you implying? Are you saying that I am
not capable of blowing $200, plus another $10-$15 a month? Are you
saying that the RDF doesn't have any influence on me?

If that's the case, then how do you explain my paying full price for
Aperture and a TimeCapsule, even though I am a grad student?

There's plenty of evidence to suggest that "someone like [me]" will
feel compelled to upgrade before Labor Day. I just want to know the
reasons I'm going to be using after I do so.

--
=Alex Hoffman
Leadership, Policy & Politics
Teachers College, Columbia University

On 6/13/08 10:11 AM, "LewisGmail" <gkremegmail.com> wrote:

>> For someone like you, you shouldn't. There's no law that says you
>> have to.
>
> And I doubt that most people will upgrade.

Agreed. I don't think this iPhone is really targeted at those who already
have one. I think Apple is shooting for those who have held out.

--
Shawn King

On Jun 13, 2008, at 10:11 AM, Chris Devers wrote:

> Speaking of which, is it me or did the MobileMe sync features fail to
> mention bookmark sync, whic .Mac & the iPhone have had for a while
> now?

What is being dropped is the separate Bookmarks application that you
could access via a browser. Otherwise there is still going to be
bookmark sync, as explained in this article:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1608

Regards,

Howard

> I don't think this iPhone is really targeted at those who already
> have one. I think Apple is shooting for those who have held out.

At least for European (potential) customers, that comment is spot-on.

I remember talking to quite a few people when the original iPhone was
announced last year, and basically all of them said: "I'd love to get
one, but a phone introduced in 2007 that does not support UMTS/3G?
Apple must be kidding, right?!"

Considering the pretty decent 3G coverage in many Central European
countries, I wouldn't be surprised if, over here, iPhone purchases
soared on 11 July -- if the pricing is right.

ONE/Orange Austria has come up with a pretty sweet offer: 149/229
Euros ($230/$350) for the 8GB/16GB iPhone 3G, 39 Euros ($60) monthly
fees for 5,000 minutes of voice calls, 3 Gigs of data, and 100 SMS.
Here's hoping that T-mobile's package for Germany will be similar...


Regards,

Jochen.


--
Jochen Wolters | jochenpolytropia.com | http://polytropia.com

> I think Apple is shooting for those who have held out.

I hadn't noticed this before, but as further "proof" of this point of
view, the banner on the German Apple website says "Das iPhone, auf das
Sie gewartet haben." which literally means "The iPhone you've been
waiting for." How true.

<http://www.apple.com/de/>


Regards,

Jochen.


--
Jochen Wolters | jochenpolytropia.com | http://polytropia.com

On 16/06/2008 7:50 PM, "Jochen Wolters" <jochenpolytropia.com> spake thus:

> [...] "The iPhone you've been waiting for." How true.

That certainly sums up my point of view. In typical fashion, however, no
word yet from Vodafone NZ what the pricing is going to be like here. That's
the problem with living in such a small market, there's no incentive for big
players to tell you anything in advance because there's no real competition
:( All they're admitting to at the moment is that "you can get it on a
great On Account plan". Fingers crossed...

--
Nigel Stanger, Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND.
http://xri.net/=nigel.stanger

On Jun 16, 2008, at 3:50 AM, Jochen Wolters wrote:

>> I don't think this iPhone is really targeted at those who already
>> have one. I think Apple is shooting for those who have held out.
>
> At least for European (potential) customers, that comment is spot-on.
>
> I remember talking to quite a few people when the original iPhone was
> announced last year, and basically all of them said: "I'd love to get
> one, but a phone introduced in 2007 that does not support UMTS/3G?
> Apple must be kidding, right?!"

It will be interesting to see how the iPhone does in Japan, a market
that 3G makes possible. On the one hand the Japanese love new
fashionable shiny gadgets more than most. On the other hand, I can
just hear the reaction of most Japanese: "A high-end cell phone
introduced in 2008 that doesn't receive terrestrial digital TV, has
only a 2MP camera, doesn't read 3D barcodes, doesn't do e-payment.
Apple must be kidding, right?!?"

In personal computers, the U.S. dominates both in terms of hardware
and software design, so Apple could have the best computer in the
world by developing to the highest American standards. In cell
phones, the services provided by U.S. carriers are, well, primitive.
So, developing the best U.S. cell phone will get you a pretty mediocre
cell phone by global standards, even if it does come with a slick UI.

Of course, there is much less standardization of hardware and services
in cell phones. These advanced features are market specific, and are
difficult for any global product (from Apple, Nokia or Sony-Ericsson)
to address. But one wonders if there will be market specific iPhones
in future iterations. That's the only way for Apple to really break
into markets that expect a lot more from their cell phones.

That said, I will probably end up shelling out for a 3G iPhone, just
so I can have a cell phone that will work both in the U.S. and Japan/
Korea.

Tn

On 17-Jun-08, at 3:37 PM, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:

> It will be interesting to see how the iPhone does in Japan,,,
>
> That said, I will probably end up shelling out for a 3G iPhone, just
> so I can have a cell phone that will work both in the U.S. and Japan/
> Korea.

It's not just a phone, Tomoharu, it is also a computer. At least you
are likely to appreciate that, sooner or later ?

George

On Jun 17, 2008, at 10:01 PM, George Wade wrote:

> It's not just a phone, Tomoharu, it is also a computer. At least
> you are likely to appreciate that, sooner or later ?
>
> George

Yes, I do appreciate that the iPhone is more like computers than
simple cell phones. But to point out this obvious fact doesn't
address the point that I was making. Obviously, like general
computers the iPhone is extensible via software to some extent, and no
doubt some of the perceived short-comings of the iPhone will be
covered through software.

But the iPhone is is not a general computing device in one important
respect. Some of its key limitations are that of hardware, and unlike
computers, providing hardware add-ons to solve those problems would be
impossible in most cases, incredibly difficult without detracting from
the fundamental appeal of the iPhone in others, and not economically
viable in virtually all.

Many Europeans passed on the first iPhone because it was not 3G---a
problem that could only be solved with new hardware. Similarly, of
the features that I listed that Japanese are starting to expect from
their high end cell phones, only one---the ability to read 3D
barcodes---can be fixed with software. The rest are limitations of
hardware. To the extent that many market specific features on cell
phones are dependent on market specific hardware, these limitations
will only be addressed by developing iPhones tailored to specific
markets.

Don't get me wrong, the iPhone does basic smartphone better than
anything else on the market (and combined with its inherent appeal), I
expect it will do reasonably well in Japan (and other new markets).
That said, I would love to see Apple Japan build on the iPhone and
develop one that incorporates the cutting edge features available in
that market, and I suspect that Europeans would similarly like to see
Apple develop an iPhone for Europe that takes advantage of services
available exclusively in that market.

Tn

It is another of those times when all of us are right, because we all
have our own point of view. At least I wasn't trying to sell you one !

I'm working up retirement business just to be able to afford the
enjoyment of one of these elegant luxuries. It will be fun to track
how the mobile computing portion of it develops. Perhaps the real
iPhone starts 3 years down the road ? Somebody in one of the rags I
read thought it could be a billion $ industry. That could take off
in Europe and Asia because of their superior business models for
cellular nets.

I haven't lived in Japan since 2002. What are the new developments
expected from 3G onwards; or are they already moving ? Once the
market is there we can have keyboards or voice recognition; wide
screen mono or binocular video glasses; hi fi audio and projection
tv adapters. It seems very adaptable to many kinds of uses, are
iPhones in use on the space station yet ?

Not that we'd carry it all around all the time; more like carrying a
HDD home instead of a whole notebook. Carrying an iPhone from one
environment to another, where all the helpful peripheral gadgets exist.

"Martyn Williams, IDG News Service
Wednesday, March 26, 2008

DoCoMo stared working on Super 3G in July 2006 as a stepping stone
technology to bridge the gap between current HSDPA (high-speed
downlink packet access) technology and 4G cellular systems.
The first 3G systems were capable of data transmission at speeds up
to 384K bps but can now support downloads in the megabit per second
range thanks to HSDPA systems. NTT DoCoMo's network in Japan
currently offers download speeds up to 3.6M bps and from April 1 will
support up to 7.2M bps. Such technology is expected to scale up to
around 100M bps but there's a big gap between that point and 4G
speeds of 1G bps.

As carriers want to wring out every bit of life possible from
cellular networks the commercial launch of LTE should mean that 3G
technology is good for a few more years before customers and
applications begin demanding faster transmission.

NTT DoCoMo is also looking at 4G systems and has already managed to
transmit data at close to 5G bps to a receiver moving at 10
kilometers per hour using 4G technology.

The carrier hopes Super 3G development work will be completed by the
end of 2009, said Ichikoshi. That means commercial services, if
launched, would begin in 2010 at the earliest."

That's where the target is moving, I see. There will be a surcharge
for using old technology, like iPhones, in Asia soon. *(^­^)*


George

Tomoharu Nishino wrote:
> Don't get me wrong, the iPhone does basic smartphone better than
> anything else on the market (and combined with its inherent appeal), I
> expect it will do reasonably well in Japan (and other new markets).
> That said, I would love to see Apple Japan build on the iPhone and
> develop one that incorporates the cutting edge features available in
> that market, and I suspect that Europeans would similarly like to see
> Apple develop an iPhone for Europe that takes advantage of services
> available exclusively in that market.
>
> Tn

I'm speaking from much ignorance here but:

Is Japan much more like Chicago or NYC than Raleigh NC, where I live. In the big cities folks don't own cars for the most part and walk/ride to work/shopping/whatever. Here where I am we either drive or make a call. And I've come to the conclusion that the phone service networks in the US are a huge cost drain on almost any organization.

Just curious.

David

> ONE/Orange Austria has come up with a pretty sweet offer: 149/229
> Euros ($230/$350) for the 8GB/16GB iPhone 3G, 39 Euros ($60) monthly
> fees for 5,000 minutes of voice calls, 3 Gigs of data, and 100 SMS.
> Here's hoping that T-mobile's package for Germany will be similar...
>

As far as I can tell, T-Mobile has not changed a thing about their
tariff contracts, making the iPhone not nearly as interesting to non-
business customers as Austrian ONE/Orange's offer does.

It's disappointing to see that Apple either does not realize, or does
not care, that T-Mobile's tariff structure for the iPhone will turn
away a _lot_ of potential iPhone customers in Germany, one of the
biggest IT and mobile phone markets in Europe.

Note to self: don't get your hopes up when dealing with a formerly
state-owned de-facto monopolist...


Regards,

Jochen.


--
Jochen Wolters | jochenpolytropia.com | http://polytropia.com