Monitor recommendation?

On 15/05/08 22:42, "Kirk McElhearn" <kirkmcelhearn.com> wrote:

> I've got an old Apple 20" monitor, and I really want to move up to 24"
> or 30" (ok, probably 24, because I can't afford a 30 right now...)
>
> I've been looking at reviews, and lots of monitors suffer from bad
> viewing angles, something which this Apple monitor definitely doesn't
> have. Does anyone have a recommendation for a good, not-too-expensive
> 24" monitor?

Basically, you should avoid TN panels, and stick to MVA, PVA or IPS panels.
Unfortunately, TN panels (like the one in the infamous 20" iMac) are now
much more prevalent because they're much cheaper (at least twice less
expensive), and non-TN panels are now almost extinct in computer monitors
smaller than 27". The majority of people look more closely to the price tag
than the image quality, so they buy TN panels in drove; many panel
manufacturers have then stopped producing other kinds of panels which don't
sell well, and monitor manufacturers have no choice but discontinue their
monitors using these more expensive panels.

I was looking for a 24" last Christmas, and I chose the BenQ FP241W, which
is awesome but hard to find now (discontinued).

-Thomas

On May 17, 2008, at 11:31 AM, John C. Welch wrote:

> I've been quite happy with my HP pivoting displays. Cheaper, and a
> refresh
> rate that's twice as fast as Apple's

Yea, Apple's refresh rates are extremely poor in comparison to others.
This said, I don't notice it on my Apple 20".

Kirk

LewisGmail wrote:
> On 16-May-2008, at 05:26, David Ross wrote:

>> At home I bought a 22" acer last Thanksgiving and it has been great
>> for me. My color fidelity needs are much less precise than my
>> clients. :)
>
> The problem I have with the 22" is that they are the same resolution
> as the 20" models (1680x1050 in the widescreens), so the dots are
> simply larger, giving a higher dot pitch/lower dpi. I've not seen a
> 22" that I would consider buying.

I agree in theory. But as some of us move past 50 those bigger dots work better for the distance we need to work at. It's easier to see while working sitting back further than I used to work. Wish it were not so but it is the way of life. :)

And yes I do have corrective lenses. Mono vision in fact.

David

On May 17, 2008, at 11:31 AM, David Ross wrote:

> While people who've never done it tend to think it will be a pain,
> I've yet to see anyone who's gone to a dual display setup ever want
> to go back. Especially if using CAD/Graphics applications with lots
> of tool pallets. You can put the tools on one and use the other for
> your main work space and not get into constantly moving pallets
> around or making them invisible to free up work space.
>
> And dual 20" display usually cost less than a single 24" or 30".

Yea, I can't do that. I have amblyopia, and basically only see out of
one eye. So the two-monitor-horizontal route won't work for me. I wish
it would, though...


Kirk

On May 17, 2008, at 11:34 AM, wolffje wrote:

> Hi Kirk,
>
> If you are going to look at the Samsung monitors then make sure that
> the specs at least match those of the equivalent Apple Display. The
> Samsung monitors I bought last year (203B) are nowhere near as sharp
> as the older Apple displays of similar size and pixel count.
>
> It would not surprise me (if Samsung really is making displays for
> Apple) that the specs and configurations for Apple's Cinema displays
> are different from those that Samsung uses for the monitors that it
> makes for the PC market.

Yea, after reading posts here, I did some checking, and the cheaper
ones get pretty bad reviews, especially on viewing angle (which on my
Apple 20" is excellent). I think I'm going to go for the higher-end
Dell 24" (they have two models). It's cheaper than Apple, and the
reviews are excellent.


Kirk

I don't know squat about tech details of monitors, but I've had an LG Flatron 17" for 3 or 4 years which I entirely love. Bright, sharp, easy to read text. The image quality is particularly noticeable next to the washed-out 2001-vintage NEC 18" LCD I use as a second monitor.

The downside: No height adjustment is annoying, but appears to be common among monitors. Sits on a pile of old MacWorlds. No bells and whistles (i.e. USB ports), which bothers me not at all. I'm looking at monitors to go with my MacBook Pro, and I'll consider LG at the top of the list.

--Steve--

--On May 16, 2008 4:26:33 AM -0700 David Ross <drdavidrossconsultant.com>
wrote:

> One CAD user / software developer I know bought a 30". He took it back
> after a few days. His main two complaints were that he kept loosing the
> cursor and picking the Apple menu seemed to require a trip to Portland,
> OR. :)

That can be a problem for dual monitors as well. I wish with mulitple
monitor there was a way to duplicate the menu bar and the dock on all
screens.

Actually I really want is the ability to have seperate "Spaces" open on
each window with independent menu bar in each.

At 2:31 AM -0700 5/17/08, Moe Rubenzahl wrote:
>I have a Dell monitor. It's very good, and was a very good value. The
>one caution is that if something goes wrong, you have to deal with
>Dell. Their Customer Service is not merely bad, it's unfathomably,
>whackily, strangely horrid. Lessee, I think I wrote up something....
>yeah, here ya go:
>
>http://feedme.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/01/my-last-dell-pu.html

I agree all around. I have a Dell monitor and it is very good. But
when the Dell laptop I had went south - and was covered under
extended warranty - it still cost me a lot of noodling around with
tech support and I still had to pay a lot of money.

No Dell, not anything, ever again.

On May 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, LewisGmail wrote:

> I very much like both my Dell 20" (2005FPW and 2007FPW) but I have had
> to replace the 2005 once due to a 'smear' that appeared near the top
> of the screen and steadily spread down. It is subtle in normal use,
> but ona flat grey background, or a very light background, it is quite
> noticible. The replacement was not too hard to manage, but the new
> 2005FPW that arrived exhibited the same issue and is now out of
> warranty.
>
> It looks like an oil stain inside the panel.

I have exactly the same problem with my Dell 2005FPW LCD! It starts
in the middle at the top of the screen an spreads down and to the
right, and is about a 1/2" wide. It happened fairly early in its life.

It's annoying, but I've not bothered to investigate further. Anyone
one know the story?

Dick Rucker

On or about 5/17/08 3:23 PM, thus spake "Kevin van Haaren"
<kevinvanhaaren.net>:

> I wish with mulitple
> monitor there was a way to duplicate the menu bar

Try DejaMenu:

http://homepage.mac.com/khsu/DejaMenu/DejaMenu.html

I find it helpful even on a single, only moderately large monitor.

In fact, it's even helpful on a laptop, rather than mousing around with the
trackpad.

m.

On 18-May-2008, at 05:35, Richard Rucker wrote:
> On May 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, LewisGmail wrote:
>> I very much like both my Dell 20" (2005FPW and 2007FPW) but I have
>> had
>> to replace the 2005 once due to a 'smear' that appeared near the top
>> of the screen and steadily spread down. It is subtle in normal use,
>> but ona flat grey background, or a very light background, it is quite
>> noticible. The replacement was not too hard to manage, but the new
>> 2005FPW that arrived exhibited the same issue and is now out of
>> warranty.
>>
>> It looks like an oil stain inside the panel.
>
> I have exactly the same problem with my Dell 2005FPW LCD!

>
> It's annoying, but I've not bothered to investigate further. Anyone
> one know the story?

I know I had Dell replace it. If it's under warranty still, get a new
one shipped out.

Richard Rucker wrote:
>
> On May 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, LewisGmail wrote:
>
>> I very much like both my Dell 20" (2005FPW and 2007FPW) but I have had
>> to replace the 2005 once due to a 'smear' that appeared near the top
>> of the screen and steadily spread down. It is subtle in normal use,
>> but ona flat grey background, or a very light background, it is quite
>> noticible. The replacement was not too hard to manage, but the new
>> 2005FPW that arrived exhibited the same issue and is now out of
>> warranty.
>>
>> It looks like an oil stain inside the panel.
>
> I have exactly the same problem with my Dell 2005FPW LCD! It starts
> in the middle at the top of the screen an spreads down and to the
> right, and is about a 1/2" wide. It happened fairly early in its life.
>
> It's annoying, but I've not bothered to investigate further. Anyone
> one know the story?

The cover glass/plastic has separated from the actual display.

David

At 3:23 PM -0700 5/17/2008, Kirk McElhearn wrote:

>On May 17, 2008, at 11:34 AM, wolffje wrote:
>
>>Hi Kirk,
>>
>>If you are going to look at the Samsung monitors then make sure that
>>the specs at least match those of the equivalent Apple Display. The
>>Samsung monitors I bought last year (203B) are nowhere near as sharp
>>as the older Apple displays of similar size and pixel count.
>>
>>It would not surprise me (if Samsung really is making displays for
>>Apple) that the specs and configurations for Apple's Cinema displays
>>are different from those that Samsung uses for the monitors that it
>>makes for the PC market.
>
>Yea, after reading posts here, I did some checking, and the cheaper
>ones get pretty bad reviews, especially on viewing angle (which on my
>Apple 20" is excellent). I think I'm going to go for the higher-end
>Dell 24" (they have two models). It's cheaper than Apple, and the
>reviews are excellent.
>

Kirk:

Depending on your needs, check what inputs the various monitors have.
A 24" or 30" seems much more reasonably priced if you plan to use it
for multiple tasks.

My Dell 2405FPW looks very nice and has been trouble free. Since I
have dual monitors, I appreciate that Dell has S-Video and Component
Video. Its often used as display for cable TV box--HD is gorgeous.
Monitor is so sharp that standard quality video shows how bad it
often is. Ditto for downloaded 320x240 videos if enlarged to take up
more of screen. For that matter, Standard quality DVDs don't look
that great if blown up to fill screen.

TVs often have line doublers or something that makes VHS resolution
or standard broadcast look much better. Computer monitors show the
flaws. Hard to believe how much better VHS looks on an older 65" rear
projection TV than it does on this 24". (Needs speakers for TV sound
but that was easy to find.)

HDMI is available on some newer monitors.

--Jim

On 17 May 2008, at 10:31, Arthur Evans Jr wrote:

> Just out of curiosity, just which kind of memory chips does the
> thing read?

I know it reads Compact Flash & SD variants, not having anything else
to hand I don't know what else.

One minor issue is the the USB ports & the reader are on the left
hand side of the display, which if you have a second display on the
left hand side makes it a bit of a squeeze to get cables etc in and out.

        f

On May 19, 2008, at 7:23 AM, David Ross wrote:

> Richard Rucker wrote:
>>
>> On May 17, 2008, at 5:31 AM, LewisGmail wrote:
>>
>>> I very much like both my Dell 20" (2005FPW and 2007FPW) but I have
>>> had
>>> to replace the 2005 once due to a 'smear' that appeared near the top
>>> of the screen and steadily spread down. It is subtle in normal use,
>>> but ona flat grey background, or a very light background, it is
>>> quite
>>> noticible. The replacement was not too hard to manage, but the new
>>> 2005FPW that arrived exhibited the same issue and is now out of
>>> warranty.
>>>
>>> It looks like an oil stain inside the panel.
>>
>> I have exactly the same problem with my Dell 2005FPW LCD! It starts
>> in the middle at the top of the screen an spreads down and to the
>> right, and is about a 1/2" wide. It happened fairly early in its
>> life.
>>
>> It's annoying, but I've not bothered to investigate further. Anyone
>> one know the story?
>
> The cover glass/plastic has separated from the actual display.

That's it! I just pressed down on the darkened area with my thumb,
and the "oily stain" disappeared.

Thanks,

Dick

I have been pretty happy with a 24" Gateway that has adjustable height and pivots for portrait view.

Kirk,

I recently went through a similar process when my G4 MDD and Apple 17" Studio Display got problems and went into the repair shop. Started shopping around for a new display. Premise: I'm a photographer and absolutely need a high quality, calibrated display on which to work with Photoshop files. Your needs may vary.

I, too had heard about the Samsung displays, but they make three different series. Other photogs had recommended them, but only the more expensive Pro series. After getting cross-eyed from reading through specs on various makes and models, I ended up with an Apple 23" Cinema Display - paid for over 6 months to ease the financial burden - from Apple Store France. It's great!

Happy ending to the G4MDD story too. Lost two internal data drives which had committed suicide together, but both were backed up to an external drive. Replaced the power supply and fans and the Mac runs much quieter now - absolutely amazing the difference in noise levels. And the old 17" display is fine and serves as a second display.

cheers,

ncm

G4 MDD Dual 1.25 GHz/2 Gb RAM OSX 10.4.11 G4 PowerBook al 1.33 GHz/1.25Gb RAM OSX 10.4.11

I'd like to throw in my comments, mostly because I don't see too much mentioned here about Apple monitors. As a graphic designer, I'm pretty demanding in what I see in front of me. That's why I choose the Apple 23 inch cinema display. Super sharp detail, even with very small type sizes. No dead pixels, bright and crystal clear. But here's what I didn't bargain for: pink! I love the color on my girl friend but not when there's a whole color cast of it on my monitor. And that's what you get with Apple LCDs. At least in the 23 inch models. The entire monitor has an ever so slight tint of magenta in it. A pink color cast. I've read where this was a big problem in past years with the Apple 23 (wish I knew), but it was supposedly fixed in the new models. Well, it might have gotten better, but in my brand new 23, I still see pink. Not a lot, but it's definitely there. Especially noticeable in the solid black areas. I've checked into this further and it seems that the Apple monitors are made differently from all the other monitors (I read a whole article on it but I've forgotten the specs that make it different). Thus the pink color cast. It's inherent in the manufacturing process of the Apple. I can see the questions now: as a graphic designer, who works in precise color all the time, why put up with this monitor? Well, truth is, I almost returned it. But I hated giving up because the monitor had that fine, detailed sharpness that I don't see in a lot of other monitors. So I finally worked out a compromise/fix (not 100% great, but acceptable): got rid of most of the pink by doing a custom color calibration (System Preferences/Display/Color). I wish I didn't have to go through this, but there you have it. Just wanted to let you know what to expect if you decide to go for this monitor. Would I recommend it: yes... but with a slight "pink" caveat!

Don,

I agree with you about the 23 inch cinema display: I love mine.

If you're serious about colour on your monitor you need a colorimeter. Here are reviews of two suitable ones from Datacolor:

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/spyder2express.html

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/profiling/spyder3pro.html

Cheers

Tony

Thanks to all who gave me recommendations. I chose a 24" Dell, and I
wrote some interesting things about adjusting its display here, if
anyone's interested:

http://www.mcelhearn.com/article.php?story=20080522105053370

Kirk

              Read my blog: Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com