iPod Touch as Palm Replacement

At 07:45 -0700 UTC, on 2008-03-14, David Weintraub wrote:

> [...] an iPod
> Touch has no external speakers, so it cannot beep or anything when a
> meeting appointment comes up.

It can actually. Its Clock has an alarm function which lets you pick from a
couple of sounds. (Defining how long in advance you want it to beep is
restricted to a predefined list though, ranging from 5 minutes to 2 days.)

I don't know why it can play these sounds and nothing else. Possibly Steve
decided that the built-in speaker is only good enough for bleeps.

> I also understand there is no ToDo list

Indeed not, as far I can see.

> or notes.

It has Notes, outside of its Calendar. And it has notes per Calendar event.

> What other shortcomings are there for the iPod Touch or even an iPhone
> to replace the basic 4 functions of a Palm PDA (Calendar, Addresses,
> Notes, and ToDo List)?

Syncs only with iCal and AddressBook. (I believe Notes aren't even synched at
all.)


--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>

David says...

> I was thinking of using an iPod Touch, but I realize that an iPod
> Touch has no external speakers, so it cannot beep or anything when a
> meeting appointment comes up. I also understand there is no ToDo list
> or notes.

Even without the headphones attached, the iPod touch is capable of
making clicking sounds and the like as part of the user interface,
and it makes noise when you plug it in, so there must be SOME
integrated speaker. Whether the applications can talk to it directly
or not, I don't know, but it shouldn't be out of the realm of
possibility.

Of course, the iPod is INTENDED to be used as an audio device with
headphones, but this would be a good avenue for Apple to explore.

--
  Mark H. Anbinder | mhatidbits.com
  Contributing Editor, TidBITS | http://www.tidbits.com/

I'm using a current gen. iTouch (replacing a Newton), and running it
mainly from my computer, where it synchs very nicely with iCal, Mail,
iTunes, Address Book and iPhoto. I did notice that ToDo's and Notes
from iCal did not come across, but I don't make much use of those
features. It does have a separate 'Notes' app however, if you can
stand typing on the touch keypad - not so easy with my large hands
and fingers!

I've only had it a few weeks, and am still exploring, so there might
be tricks I haven't found yet. Generally, I'm very pleased with it,
but only use it as a simple PDA and emergency email checker (I carry
a laptop most of the time).

HTH,

Roger Henriques
rdh at rhen dot com

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 7:45 AM, David Weintraub <qazwartgmail.com> wrote:

--
____________________
Ryoichi Morita
Coarsegold, CA
http://www.rjmorita.com

On Mar 14, 2008, at 10:45 AM, David Weintraub wrote:

> I was thinking of using an iPod Touch, but I realize that an iPod
> Touch has no external speakers, so it cannot beep or anything when a
> meeting appointment comes up. I also understand there is no ToDo list
> or notes.

The most recent software update for the iPod Touch adds Notes (along
with Mail, Google Maps, and a few other apps). Still no ToDo for
either the Touch or the iPhone.

The big problem with Notes is that it doesn't sync. Leopard was
supposed to add iPhone Notes syncing but that feature was quietly
removed at launch.

As it stands, you get partial Notes syncing (assuming you are using
Leopard). The new Notes in Apple Mail is just a special kind of
email. If you set your Notes folder to remain on your IMAP server, it
will get synced to the Touch/iPhone like any other IMAP folder in your
Mail application. So you will be able to read any notes you create on
your Mac on your Touch/iPhone. Unfortunately, you cannot edit these
notes on the Touch/iPhone. If you want to create a note on your Touch/
iPhone for review on your Mac, you would just send yourself an email.
Not pretty, but serviceable. (You can also use the send-email-to-
yourself trick if you are running Tiger, and don't have the new Mail
app with the Notes feature.)

> What other shortcomings are there for the iPod Touch or even an iPhone
> to replace the basic 4 functions of a Palm PDA (Calendar, Addresses,
> Notes, and ToDo List)?

Here are a few that make my list of to-fixes (in no particular order):

- Inability to link contacts with calendar entries.
- Inability to send email "invitations" from iCal entries.
- Inability to support multiple calendars in iCal.
- Inability to accept .ics attachments via email and have them
automatically add to iCal.
- No week view (though list view is a decent substitute)
- No categories (groups) in Addresses
- Data detectors will identify elements (like phone numbers) in email
but does not have add to contacts functionality.
- No search
- No sync via BT.
- No clipboard (cut and paste).
- Full CalDAV support would be nice, too (now that Apple is pushing it
with iCal server), as would direct to .Mac sync via wireless.

That said, the basic PDA functionality (aside from Notes and ToDos) on
the Touch/iPhone is IMHO better than the out-of-the-box PDA
functionality of the Palm---the applications have a more modern look
and feel, syncing just works, and the PDA apps on the Touch/iPhone are
better integrated with other apps. But it is also true that the Palm
has a lot of third party software, like Agendus, to fill in the gaps.
Many of the Touch/iPhone's limitations will undoubtedly be addressed
once third party apps start rolling out, and Apple rolls out 2.0 of
the Touch/iPhone OS.

Tn

At 13:42 -0700 UTC, on 2008-03-16, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:

[... missing from iTouch]

> - Inability to accept .ics attachments via email and have them
> automatically add to iCal.

People actually do that? And they don't find entries like "14:20 - enlarge
penis now" in their agenda? Or do they use mail clients that allow them to
require verification through something like PGP/MIME, before auto-opening
attachments? (That could be useful. I'm just not aware of mail clients that
provide such functionality.)


--
Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/>

On Mar 17, 2008, at 7:14 AM, Sander Tekelenburg wrote:

> At 13:42 -0700 UTC, on 2008-03-16, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:
>
> [... missing from iTouch]
>
>> - Inability to accept .ics attachments via email and have them
>> automatically add to iCal.
>
> People actually do that? And they don't find entries like "14:20 -
> enlarge
> penis now" in their agenda? Or do they use mail clients that allow
> them to
> require verification through something like PGP/MIME, before auto-
> opening
> attachments? (That could be useful. I'm just not aware of mail
> clients that
> provide such functionality.)

Just a bit of clarification. I guess the word "automatically" was
misleading. What I meant was the ability to process .ics
attachments. Not have the mail client automatically add every
single .ics attachment to iCal. It would be nice to have the ability
to tap the attachment and have it "accept" (that is fire off an "I'm
in" email), and add the entry to iCal. (In one of my clients,
meetings get confirmed this way a lot. Must have something to do with
the fact that everyone is using Outlook on Windows.)

Tn

> At 13:42 -0700 UTC, on 2008-03-16, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:
>
> [... missing from iTouch]
> - Inability to accept .ics attachments via email and have them
> automatically add to iCal.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:14 AM, Sander Tekelenburg <tekelenbeuronet.nl> wrote:

> People actually do that? And they don't find entries like "14:20 - enlarge
> penis now" in their agenda?

You know, you've may has solve the mystery of why Governor Eliot
"Ness" Spitzer, the former Avenging Angel Attorney General, got mixed
up in the mess he got mixed up in: His PDA automatically links accepts
.ics attachments via email.

He took one look at his PDA, and said "Hmm... It looks like I've got a
5pm appointment at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington.", and the rest
is history.

--
David Weintraub
qazwartgmail.com

My Palm was having to be rebooted every day, so I'm trying out my new Touch as my PDA.

1) I had to switch to iCal and Address which was okay (Missing Sync made a converter from my Palm version) 2) I had to clean up my Safari bookmarks to include only ones I want to get to from the Touch (but I use Camino and Firefox primarily from my main Mac anyway, so that wasn't a problem). 3) I'm using calendar items as a temporary To Do list to get things on the right date.

Wish list: 1) a To Do list so I can keep a list of jobs I don't have dates for yet 2) a Note field I can fill on my Mac and then sync to my Touch and edit there. I tried zoho.com but some of my files (list of DVDs I own, for example) are too big and don't load if the WiFi is flakey. 3) a simple way to ask a web page to cache as that would serve as some of my Notes do on my Palm. 4) a decent case -- I have the Belkin folio, but you can't type the "A" with it in the case, yet the other cases don't cover the screen when I drop it in my bag to protect it. 5) an obvious way to tell it I do NOT want the word it thinks I'm typing.

It's taking a while to get used to.

Here's How to Sync Notes:

According to what I've read at the MissingSync web site,"MissingSync For iPhone" (which also works with the iPod Touch) gives you the ability to categorize 'Notes', and to create them on your Mac as well as on your iPod Touch, and sync the notes back & forth between the two. At least that is what MissingSync claims.

Check out: http://www.missingsync.com/missingsync_iphone.php

The power button on my Palm m130 is worn out, so I am actively considering going with a Touch. Realistically, I could replace my current Palm with a Z22 and not lose anything in the deal (in fact, I would gain some stuff) and that would be the cheapest alternative, but then I would still be carrying around three devices. The iPhone is not an option, as I live in Canada (and use a CDMA carrier).

I use my Palm pretty simply, but I do use the following software that the Touch does not seem to have:

- To Do Lists: The loss of the To Do List is almost a dealbreaker except that since I switched from Palm's software to iCal and Address Book, I manage all my To Dos in iCal and mostly refer to them there instead of on my Palm (I leave iCal open on both my work and home computers).

- Notes: I used the Notes feature extensively on my Palm — I never take paper notes at conferences anymore. I got pretty good at Graffiti (1), but it was not flawless. I could also do Graffiti while not looking at the screen, which I doubt will be possible with an onscreen keyboard.

- Documents To Go: I used this mainly to keep records for my car (gas mileage, repairs, etc.).

- Avant Go: …to read TidBITS when I was caught in some waiting room somewhere. I guess getting WiFi might be an acceptable trade-off. :-)

I used to use my iPod (first mini, then nano 2G) for hauling data around, but now that I keep a 2GB USB drive on my keychain, it is not really an issue.

If I go with the Touch, I would be betting on third party developers to fill this void. If I can scrape up the money (including selling my nano), I'm leaning towards the Touch.

I can speak to some of these, since I've had my Touch for about a week
now and I bought it to replace my Tungsten T5.

On Apr 23, 2008, at 5:12 AM, areimer wrote:
>
> - To Do Lists: The loss of the To Do List is almost a dealbreaker
> except that since I switched from Palm's software to iCal and
> Address Book, I manage all my To Dos in iCal and mostly refer to
> them there instead of on my Palm (I leave iCal open on both my work
> and home computers).

You'll need to use either simple calendar entries or Notes.

>
>
> - Notes: I used the Notes feature extensively on my Palm — I never
> take paper notes at conferences anymore. I got pretty good at
> Graffiti (1), but it was not flawless. I could also do Graffiti
> while not looking at the screen, which I doubt will be possible with
> an onscreen keyboard.

No, you won't be able to do this without looking. You'll need to look
to see the keyboard and to correct all the many typos you make with
the keyboard. (Maybe I'll get better with practice.)

>
> I used to use my iPod (first mini, then nano 2G) for hauling data
> around, but now that I keep a 2GB USB drive on my keychain, it is
> not really an issue.

It doesn't even show up on the Desktop when syncing. There's simply
no way of using the space on it for anything but what iTunes will let
you.

>
>
> If I go with the Touch, I would be betting on third party developers
> to fill this void. If I can scrape up the money (including selling
> my nano), I'm leaning towards the Touch.

I used my Palm for notes, catching up with email, and little else.
The Touch is much better than the Palm for email when in range of a
network, even though it has the stupid 200 message arbitrary limit.
It does not have arbitrary per message size limits, which is a plus.
When out of range, the experience is about the same, with different
things being unreadable. Safari is infinitely better than the browser
on the Palm. It's entirely feasible to surf the web on the Touch,
while the Palm was simply useless. The calendar on both do the job,
although the Palm has todo's.

As an iPod, the Touch has pluses and minuses. The screen is much
larger than the one on my 5.5G, so video is much nicer. The controls
on the Touch, however, are more annoying. First, you always have to
unlock the screen with a slider. Then you have to be looking at the
screen to see the controls (which change depending on screen
orientation). With my 5.5G, I simply feel for the control wheel (the
case I use makes that simple, since the control wheel is the only
thing it exposes) and then I know where to press to do what I want.
For eyes free use, then, the 5.5G is preferable, and it's the one I
usually take in the car.

--
Paul Schinder
schinderpobox.com

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:12 AM, areimer <areimerucalgary.ca> wrote:
> The power button on my Palm m130 is worn out, so I am actively considering going with a Touch. Realistically, I could replace my current Palm with a Z22 and not lose anything in the deal (in fact, I would gain some stuff) and that would be the cheapest alternative, but then I would still be carrying around three devices. The iPhone is not an option, as I live in Canada (and use a CDMA carrier).
>
> If I go with the Touch, I would be betting on third party developers to fill this void. If I can scrape up the money (including selling my nano), I'm leaning towards the Touch.

I asked a similar question about 3 months ago. I decided to sit quiet
and see what happens with the SDK when it finally comes out in June.
All the missing pieces may appear when the SDK finally comes out.

I've decided not to buy a Palm again. Sync'ing is just too much
hassle, and Palm doesn't seem to even care. Right now, I'm using my
Motorola RIZR cellphone as a replacement. Typing is difficult, but I'm
getting good enough at Texting that I can add appointments and stuff
on the go. The Motorola RIZR has no problems syncing to iCal and
Address Book.

Meanwhile, I'll see what will happen when the SDK is finally released.

--
David Weintraub
qazwartgmail.com

On Apr 23, 2008, at 05:12, areimer wrote:

> The power button on my Palm m130 is worn out, so I am actively
> considering going with a Touch.
>
> - To Do Lists:

If you are on Leopard then Mail supports both To Do's and Notes as
part of the mailbox . . . I haven't checked but I think they would
sync with Mail on the Touch as well. I've created Notes for sure (and
I think ToDo's as well) and synced them with my normal ISP via IMAP;
they show up fine on the server and I would assume that they will also
show up in Mail on the Touch.

>
> - Documents To Go: I used this mainly to keep records for my car
> (gas mileage, repairs, etc.).

Google Docs might be a decent replacement

>
> If I go with the Touch, I would be betting on third party developers
> to fill this void. If I can scrape up the money (including selling
> my nano), I'm leaning towards the Touch.

Yeah . . .although I've got no direct insider knowledge . . . one
would suppose that the various apps one finds useful on a Palm
(Shopping List, encrypted password keeper, etc) will quickly find
their way onto it once the final SDK ships.

I'm looking at the same idea to replace my E2 . . . but unless it dies
I'll wait until the stuff I need is actually available. The password
keeper is already done (Password Wallet) and I could work around the
shopping list app (I use Listmaker) but unless I have to I'll wait a
bit and skip the workaround.

At 2:12 AM -0700 4/23/08, areimer wrote:
>The iPhone is not an option, as I live in Canada (and use a CDMA carrier).

I replaced my previous Zire 31 plus standalone cell with a Treo 755p
from Telus and couldn't be happier.

While an iPhone would have been nice for the Mac person I am, I dread
having to even contemplate switching over to the major GSM carrier we
currently have in Canada.

Stephen

On 23-Apr-08, at 2:12 AM, areimer wrote:

> The power button on my Palm m130 is worn out.....
> I used to use my iPod (first mini, then nano 2G) for hauling data
> around, but now that I keep a 2GB USB drive on my keychain, it is
> not really an issue.

Somebody's thinking about it. I think I saw an app but it got lost
in space... Meanwhile G search 'itouch apps + "data transfer" '
found: <http://ahtim.com/trasfer-files-to-ipod-touch-wirelessly/>
"As for me, I would like to use my Ipod Touch for more than that. I
want to use my Ipod Touch as a backup drive since it has 16GB

How to transfer files to Ipod Touch wirelessly?

Since Ipod Touch come with wifi (802.11b/g), we have to fully utilize
it. Through out this tutorial, I will show you how you can transfer
your files to and from Ipod Touch via wireless! On your Computer

First, of course your computer must have a usb wifi adapter just like
my TEW-424UB. Plug into your computer and install it’s driver. After
install driver, go to the Wireless Connection properties, click on
Wireless Network tab and add in Preferred Network. Click on Add,
there are 3 important things to do here:" Description with screen
shots follows.

I'm sure an app will turn up, too. Try refining my search...

George

While finishing the Healthy Coffee I found: MegaPhone for iPhone and
iPod Touch Download a Free Demo. (1.9 MB)

Please Note: iPhoneDrive is now MegaPhone! = HDD; Notes; Access
music & movies; call history export; export SMS etc. <http://
www.ecamm.com/mac/megaphone/>

George