Have Eudora and Leopard reconciled?

>I bought Leopard late last year but after reading all the horror
>stories about Eudora crashing I was afraid to take the plunge. Is it
>safe to go back in the water yet?
>
>And is it really necessary to disable all the Eudora-specific sounds?

I have Eudora's sounds disabled. Since doing that I've had no issues
with Eudora in Leopard.

--
Andrew Laurence
atlaurenuci.edu

At 3:07 AM -0800 2/19/08, tom885 wrote:
>I bought Leopard late last year but after reading all the horror
>stories about Eudora crashing I was afraid to take the plunge. Is it
>safe to go back in the water yet?

My experience is that Eudora has become a bit flakier in Leopard, but
it still basically works fine. As I've said, Eudora took a few body
blows from Leopard, but it's still standing.

>And is it really necessary to disable all the Eudora-specific sounds?

I get way too much mail to have sounds playing anyway, so I've never
enabled them to start with. But yes, I've heard that sounds are a
problem, as is attaching files by choosing Message > Attach Document
(rather than just dragging the document into the message).

cheers... -Adam

At 10:51 AM -0800 2/19/08, Andrew Laurence wrote:

>>I bought Leopard late last year but after reading all the horror
>>stories about Eudora crashing I was afraid to take the plunge. Is it
>>safe to go back in the water yet?
>>
>>And is it really necessary to disable all the Eudora-specific sounds?
>
>I have Eudora's sounds disabled. Since doing that I've had no issues
>with Eudora in Leopard.

I had occasionally encountered a "hang" when Eudora was playing the
"new mail" sound, and would have to force-quit Eudora. Since changing
to Apple-supplied alert sounds, no problems at all. Mac OS X
10.4.whateveriscurrent, iBook G4
--
Roger
Lovettsville, VA

On Feb 19, 2008, at 5:07 AM, tom885 wrote:

> I bought Leopard late last year but after reading all the horror
> stories about Eudora crashing I was afraid to take the plunge. Is it
> safe to go back in the water yet?
>

Eudora is working fine on my 4 Leopard installations. The main problem/
annoyance for me is if you happen to use Leopard's Spaces. Microsoft
Office vX as well. Not that this is surprising, Spaces seems like it
is a pretty different way of drawing program windows. I've found
sometimes toolbars get lost, and only quitting/restarting will bring
them back.

Adam Engst is also correct re this Eudora crash:
> attaching files by choosing Message > Attach Document
> (rather than just dragging the document into the message).


Seth Anderson
often found at http://www.b12partners.net/mt/

I'm not having any problems with Eudora on 10.5.2, and I use the
Eudora-supplied 'new mail' sound.

_________________
=> Jolin

Thanks to all for your help -- I'll try Leopard now.

Adam, it's been six months since your last TidBITS piece about Eudora's future, and subsequent TidBITS Talk about 8.0.0b1 and Penelope has not been particularly encouraging. How about another article some time soon, perhaps by guest author Steve Dorner?

Contemplation of life without Eudora is chilling. I use its many features to juggle a mountain of email and my personal efficiency would collapse without it. Apple Mail seems like a toy in comparison, and I'm off-line too often to entrust my mail to a web site. Thus I would pay a hefty annual fee to keep Eudora intact; there must be many others like me, but apparently not enough of us.

Tom Fortmann

At 21:47 on 20-02-2008, tom885 wrote:
> Thus I would pay a hefty annual fee to keep Eudora intact; there
> must be many others like me, but apparently not enough of us.

A company called Inifinity Data Systems is working on a 'proper'
replacement for Eudora called Odysseus. The must also feel (I think
correctly) that there is a market for Eudora. Have look at the
website and forums... all very promising stuff. We just have to hope
that they can deliver it. :-)

<http://www.infinitydatasystems.com/products/odysseus/index.html>
<http://www.infinitydatasystems.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=1>

_________________
=> Jolin

On 21-Feb-2008, at 07:44, Jolin M Warren wrote:
> A company called Inifinity Data Systems is working on a 'proper'
> replacement for Eudora called Odysseus. The must also feel (I think
> correctly) that there is a market for Eudora. Have look at the
> website and forums... all very promising stuff. We just have to hope
> that they can deliver it. :-)


They promised a beta by the end of the year and a release by Q1 2008.

I am not hopeful.

--
I got a question. If you guys know so much about women, how come
you're here at like the Gas 'n' Sip on a Saturday night completely
alone drinking beers with no women anywhere?

At 2008-02-20 21:47 -0800 tom885 wrote:

>Contemplation of life without Eudora is chilling. I use its many
>features to juggle a mountain of email and my personal efficiency
>would collapse without it.

Tom - ditto that.

>I would pay a hefty annual fee to keep Eudora intact

Depends on your definition of hefty - I call the cost of stuff like
Quark Xpress hefty - but I'd certainly be prepared to pay something
to keep a good application alive.

>there must be many others like me, but apparently not enough of us

Add my vote now.

regards

Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
| <rowlandcarsongooglemail.com> http://home.clara.net/rowil/

Rowland Carson wrote:
> At 2008-02-20 21:47 -0800 tom885 wrote:
>
>> Contemplation of life without Eudora is chilling. I use its many
>> features to juggle a mountain of email and my personal efficiency
>> would collapse without it.
>
> Tom - ditto that.
>
>> I would pay a hefty annual fee to keep Eudora intact
>
> Depends on your definition of hefty - I call the cost of stuff like
> Quark Xpress hefty - but I'd certainly be prepared to pay something
> to keep a good application alive.
>
>> there must be many others like me, but apparently not enough of us
>
> Add my vote now.

It costs $200,000 per year or more to fully fund a software engineer in the US or Europe. Food, health insurance, taxes, equipment, travel, etc... So figure out how much time per year it takes and do the math as to how many folks would be required at the price you want to pay. Typically it turns into a lot of people. Oh, yeah, figure that no more than 50% of the fees get to said engineers. And also figure out marketing and support costs.

It's this math that means the difference between a shareware product that may or may not be broken for months after Apple does an OS update and one that has a person or group dedicated to keeping it running.

David Ross

At 9:47 PM -0800 2/20/08, tom885 wrote:
>Adam, it's been six months since your last TidBITS piece about
>Eudora's future, and subsequent TidBITS Talk about 8.0.0b1 and
>Penelope has not been particularly encouraging. How about another
>article some time soon, perhaps by guest author Steve Dorner?

As far as I'm aware, not that much has really changed. Penelope
simply didn't feel like Eudora, and nothing yet has appeared from the
people doing Odysseus. I'm ignoring the problem as long as Eudora
6.2.4 keeps running.

>Contemplation of life without Eudora is chilling. I use its many
>features to juggle a mountain of email and my personal efficiency
>would collapse without it. Apple Mail seems like a toy in
>comparison, and I'm off-line too often to entrust my mail to a web
>site. Thus I would pay a hefty annual fee to keep Eudora intact;
>there must be many others like me, but apparently not enough of us.

It doesn't seem that Eudora is going to be eaten by Leopard, so that
would imply at least another year to 18 months of life from the
current version.

My impression is that Mail plus add-ons does pretty well these days,
although messages like the earlier one about how it lost track of
everything after a crash aren't heartening.

Problems I see in Eudora in Leopard on my MacBook include:

* Somewhat more frequent crashes, which has caused me to get more ?
statuses afterwards to clean up. I've also had to force quit Eudora a
few times where it just gets stuck in its own spinning cursor (not
the SPOD) and hammers the CPU while it's doing it.

* At first mail check, Eudora and SpamSieve seem to go into a dance
that hammers the CPU and sometimes prevents the first mail check from
completing. All subsequent checks are totally fine.

* There is some cosmetic redrawing problem in the Task Progress
window, if a short task is first, and finishes such that a longer
task should move up (the longer task's original location isn't
blanked out).

* I don't use sounds or attach files via the dialog, so I haven't hit
those problems.

cheers... -Adam

I've been using Eudora since... forever.

It hasn't stopped working even in 10.5.2. Sometimes the new mail sound doesn't happen on my old TiBook, but it works just fine other than that.

The new Eudora just isn't what I'm looking for. Sad, something this good is not going to continue.

Ah well, progress happens.

Thanks for pointing out the redraw problems in the task progress window, Adam. I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the different treatment of anti-aliasing in Eudora under Leopard: I use Monaco 10 everywhere in Eudora, and which had previously given me sharp text under Tiger. However, when I first launched Eudora under 10.5.2, all text was anti-aliased, with unsightly outlines around highlighted text. Turning off the "use Quartz text rendering" under "Fonts & Display" in Eudora's settings restored sharp text, but at a cost of instability and some weird rendering effects. I found that I had to go into System Preferences > Appearance and change "Turn off text smoothing for font sizes for font sizes 8 and smaller" to 10.

I didn't even know I was supposed to be having problems! Eudora 6.2.4, Tiger 10.5.2, Aluminum iMac. I need to get out more! :-) I use SpamSieve and a different "New Mail" sound. Can't remember it ever crashing/need to Force Quit but it may have happened.

Since starting to use SpamSieve I don't use any of Eudora's filtering except to route mail to different mailboxes. Not sure if that is causing others the problems.

In our last MUG meeting an Apple SW engineer says that Mail keeps messages in separate files (one per mailbox). He also demonstrated some features that I didn't know existed. I should probably start 'playing' with Mail so I can be ready if Eudora support dries up! eek!

I was having a heck of a time with Eudora crashing constantly when launched after installing Leopard. I read a lot of articles discussing various issues and was beginning to feel that it wasn't going to ever work when I stumbled upon the solution--my Eudora Trash file had somehow become corrupted. I deleted the file so Eudora created a new Trash file and it has worked fine ever since.

I guess we do have another 18 months...

On 02/26/2008 16:11 PM, "David Barto" <david.bartoviasat.com> wrote:

> I've been using Eudora since... forever.
>
> It hasn't stopped working even in 10.5.2. Sometimes the new mail sound doesn't
> happen on my old TiBook, but it works just fine other than that.
>
> The new Eudora just isn't what I'm looking for. Sad, something this good is
> not going to continue.

Getting the general public to pay for an email application is beyond hard,
and honestly, I would love to see any numbers on the amount of *new* Eudora
users over the years. What people want from email applications has changed
over the years, and Eudora was not a particularly good choice for the
typical non-geek.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

At 4:00 PM -0800 2/23/2008, Adam C. Engst wrote:

--snip--
>
>* Somewhat more frequent crashes, which has caused me to get more ?
>statuses afterwards to clean up. I've also had to force quit Eudora a
>few times where it just gets stuck in its own spinning cursor (not
>the SPOD) and hammers the CPU while it's doing it.
>

--snip--

Adam:

I see some posts on Qualcomm's forum that reverting to old-style .toc
files seems to solve the issues with message status in Leopard. There
is also an option to backup resource fork .toc.

--Jim