Intuit Alienates Mac Users With QuickBooks Fiasco

Johnny S. Tolliver wrote: "If you find a good, fully supported, Mac accounting package, I'll gladly switch to it instead of upgrading to the next version of QB for Mac."

Hi Johnny,

Take a look at MoneyWorks (www.cognito.co.nz). It will certainly meet your needs.

Grant Cowie, the Cognito CEO, is taking a stand at MacWorld this year so hopefully this will enable a wider support base in North America if the interest in MoneyWorks matches Grant's expectations.

We have used MoneyWorks in our business now for something like 15 years and I would not swap it for any other product.

Cheers,

John Wolff

Hamilton, New Zealand

<www.grandmothers.co.nz>

On 2008-01-12 8:13 AM, John_Wolff wrote:
> Take a look at MoneyWorks (www.cognito.co.nz). It will certainly meet your needs.
>
> Grant Cowie, the Cognito CEO, is taking a stand at MacWorld this year so hopefully this will enable a wider support base in North America if the interest in MoneyWorks matches Grant's expectations.
>
>

I believe MoneyWorks would have to take on the onus of providing tax
tables for NA federal, state/provincial, and local tax tables (income
tax, payroll taxes, sales, etc.), the additional burden of keeping up
with changing tax laws (which can vary on an extremely local level), and
the ability to generate completed tax-authority forms (e.g., the 1099 or
W-2 an employer must furnish to contracted and employed help each year
in the U.S.) before they would make significant inroads here.

kazar

On Jan 12, 2008, at 5:13 AM, John_Wolff wrote:

> Johnny S. Tolliver wrote: "If you find a good, fully supported, Mac
> accounting package, I'll gladly switch to it instead of upgrading
> to the next version of QB for Mac."

I've been keeping a list of Macintosh accounting programs. (Mainly
because there are folks who like to go around saying that "there are
no accounting programs for the Macintosh".) Currently the list
contains 30 business accounting programs and 26 personal finance
programs. Anyone who wants the list only has to e-mail me and I will
send it to them.

With so many options, I can't see why anyone could not find an
alternative accounting program. (However, I haven't looked at all of
these programs, so I can't make a specific recommendation or tell you
how they compare to one another.)

Randy B. Singer • Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

On or about 1/13/08 4:59 AM, thus spake "Randy B. Singer"
<randymacattorney.com>:

> I've been keeping a list of Macintosh accounting programs.

That's great, but the problem is that QuickBooks is a standard; much as
happens to people with Microsoft Office, I am forced to use it because I
need to be able to exchange data with my accountant who uses the PC version.

Having used QuickBooks for a while now, I would just add that it is nothing
but a database program, and that it would be pretty trivial to write a SQL
front end that does everything QB does more reliably and safely. As with
Office, it will surely be just a matter of time before an open source
replacement comes along. m.

This latest issue with QuickBooks (deleting one’s desktop file when applying an update) is indicative of growing QC issues at Intuit. Since last June, their quote servers have been distributing inaccurate stock quote data to both Mac and PC users of Quicken. A large percentage of Toronto traded equities (the TSE exchange) are generally quoted at ten times the actual value. Others are quoted at one-tenth reality. Similarly, the Quicken web site consistently misquotes TSE equities, and has been doing so since June.

Intuit’s response has been “please be patient, we’re working on it”. Intuit issued a patch for the PC version of Quicken back in the fall’07, but none has been forthcoming for Quicken for Mac. (According to some PC users, the patch has been problematic). In fact, a senior contact in Quicken tech support told me that they are not working on a patch for Mac users. Instead, they are prioritizing their development resources to work on the next Quicken release. Apparently, they’d rather get a bunch of new customers to buy Quicken 2008 than address serious defects in the current release. One might anticipate that they’ll tell existing customers to purchase the upgrade to get the 10-times quote bug fixed, and never issue a patch. That approach to Customer support might not appeal to readers of TidBits; it sure doesn’t to me.

Disgruntled Quicken customers have been commiserating on line. A number of PC users are moving to Microsoft Money, an option not available to Mac users. Some have even suggested launching a class action suit. More information and commentary are available on Quicken’s community forum.

http://www.quickencommunity.com/webx/Forums/Quicken%20Personal%20Finance%20Software%20Forum%20for%20Macintosh/Tracking%20investments%20in%20Quicken/

http://tinyurl.com/2f5fux

It’s sad to see how far Quicken has fallen. They were once the leader in personal financial software. Now they can’t even deliver  accurate reliable stock quotes.  Caveat emptor.

How about publishing that list here or in the TIDBits newsletter?

Randy-

Why don't you post that list on your web page? It seems it would be quite useful for a lot of people, and take the burden off of you for having to send it out on an individual basis... :-)

-Jon Glass

Kazar wrote: I believe MoneyWorks would have to take on the onus of providing tax tables for NA federal, state/provincial, and local tax tables (income tax, payroll taxes, sales, etc.), the additional burden of keeping up with changing tax laws (which can vary on an extremely local level), and the ability to generate completed tax-authority forms (e.g., the 1099 or W-2 an employer must furnish to contracted and employed help each year in the U.S.) before they would make significant inroads here.

Hi Ilyse,

Grant Cowie and his company, Cognito Software, will be unlikely to ever meet your expectations. They don't even provide a payroll module for their NZ customers. Instead they provide a means for the import of the key accounting data from a Payroll program that might be written in any other software that can produce CSV or Txt files.

MoneyWorks also has a very capable Report Generator as well as an easy to use Forms Designer. These are the tools that local developers and support personnel will use to adapt MoneyWorks to their local needs.

Since the original poster wanted a capable Mac Accounting Package, I remain adamant that MoneyWorks can deliver on that component. It WILL do his bank reconciliations and accurately track all his income, expenditure, debtors, creditors and journal entries in a way that is intuitive for the Mac. How he presents that information to his accountant or taxation agencies is the area that may well necessitate knowledge of the local requirements and hence the need for local support expertise.

IMO this is both an opportunity and a challenge for those who can and care to work in this intermediary role.

I trust this will explain the rationale for my original recommendation. Indeed . . . trying to meet all of the statutory requirements is possibly a reason for the failure of Intuit to put sufficient effort into delivering software that meets usability expectations on the Mac.

Sincerely,

John Wolff

Hamilton, New Zealand

Matt said...

>That's great, but the problem is that QuickBooks is a standard; much as
>happens to people with Microsoft Office, I am forced to use it because I
>need to be able to exchange data with my accountant who uses the PC version.

According to their advertisements MYOB will provide a free copy of their
program to a user's accountant.

Hank

Hank Harken wrote:
> Matt said...
>
>> That's great, but the problem is that QuickBooks is a standard; much as
>> happens to people with Microsoft Office, I am forced to use it because I
>> need to be able to exchange data with my accountant who uses the PC version.
>
> According to their advertisements MYOB will provide a free copy of their
> program to a user's accountant.
>
The accountant will typically have absolutely no interest in learning another package. QB has done a great job of bending over backwards to help accountants. Special versions for them to deal more easily with multiple clients. Seminars. Trained consultants. Certifications. They looked at how Microsoft took over the industry and did similar things. Many accountants now require you to provide them with a QB backup file or they charge you extra. If they'll take you as a client.

David Ross

Matt Neuburg wrote:
> On or about 1/13/08 4:59 AM, thus spake "Randy B. Singer"
> <randymacattorney.com>:
>
>> I've been keeping a list of Macintosh accounting programs.
>
> That's great, but the problem is that QuickBooks is a standard; much as
> happens to people with Microsoft Office, I am forced to use it because I
> need to be able to exchange data with my accountant who uses the PC version.
>
> Having used QuickBooks for a while now, I would just add that it is nothing
> but a database program, and that it would be pretty trivial to write a SQL
> front end that does everything QB does more reliably and safely. As with
> Office, it will surely be just a matter of time before an open source
> replacement comes along. m.

Matt, I know you are a well versed person who likely has very good programming skills. But the above statement is one I've heard for years about all accounting programs from people who've never tried to write one. The devil is in the details. And there are a LOT of details. Just the issue of cash vs. accrual creates hassles all over the place.

As to writing a double entry general ledger posting program, that's much easier and I think what you are thinking of. But QB is much more than that.

David Ross
PS: Not that I'm a fan of QB.

On Jan 15, 2008, at 6:15 AM, jonglass wrote:

> Why don't you post that list on your web page? It seems it would be
> quite useful for a lot of people, and take the burden off of you
> for having to send it out on an individual basis... :-)

The list is quite long, so unless the mods here agree that posting it
to the list is a good idea, I'll just send it directly to folks who
request it.

[It's OK with me. -Joe]

I've already heard from about 40 folks who have wanted it. More than
I expected.

I want to apologize to folks waiting to get the list. I've been at
Macworld Expo the past couple of days. But I'm back now.

Randy B. Singer • Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

Matt wrote: "Having used QuickBooks for a while now, I would just add that it is nothing but a database program, and that it would be pretty trivial to write a SQL front end that does everything QB does more reliably and safely."

Without going into it at length, while the back end structure might be straightforward enough for an accounting db, knowing first-hand what it takes to write bullet-proof yet user-friendly front ends for far less critical apps, hardly trivial.

"As with Office, it will surely be just a matter of time before an open source replacement comes along." [is there a better way to quote in the web UI??]

already very well underway, completely xplat and (wisely) uses PostgreSQL. See <http://sourceforge.net/projects/postbooks>

kazar

Here's a better link for the OS title Postbooks: <http://www.xtuple.com/postbooks>

kazar

We have been using QuickBooks Pro to manage our consulting business finances, but are now looking for an alternative. I upgraded all 3 of our computers to Leopard and found that QuickBooks Pro (ver 5) simply stopped working. It will not start. We also heard about the awful situation last December when Intuit put out an update to Ver 7 that deleted user data files. Given all the uproar about Intuit and their lack of support for QuickBooks for Mac, we thought we would look around for an alternative. Can anyone recommend something for us?

On Mar 4, 2008, at 5:47 AM, Mac Carter wrote:

> We have been using QuickBooks Pro to manage our consulting business
> finances, but are now looking for an alternative. I upgraded all 3
> of our computers to Leopard and found that QuickBooks Pro (ver 5)
> simply stopped working. It will not start. We also heard about the
> awful situation last December when Intuit put out an update to Ver 7
> that deleted user data files. Given all the uproar about Intuit and
> their lack of support for QuickBooks for Mac, we thought we would
> look around for an alternative. Can anyone recommend something for us?

Several years ago, Washington Apple Pi,Ltd., a Mac user group in the
Washington DC area, converted to MYOB's AccountEdge. At first we used
AccountEdge, Network Edition (NE), but later shifted to the less-
expensive AccountEdge version as we did not have a need for more than
one active user at a time. Based on my experience, I recommend it
highly.

http://www.myob-us.com/

Since we are an all-volunteer organization, we did not use the payroll
aspects of the program.

Dick Rucker,
former Treasurer and Bookkeeper for the Pi

On TuesdayMar 4, 2008, at 2:47 AM, Mac Carter wrote:

> We have been using QuickBooks Pro to manage our consulting business
> finances, but are now looking for an alternative. I upgraded all 3
> of our computers to Leopard and found that QuickBooks Pro (ver 5)
> simply stopped working. It will not start. We also heard about the
> awful situation last December when Intuit put out an update to Ver
> 7 that deleted user data files. Given all the uproar about Intuit
> and their lack of support for QuickBooks for Mac, we thought we
> would look around for an alternative. Can anyone recommend
> something for us?

On Intuit's site there is a patch for QB Pro 2006 "Ver V8.03 R5" for
Mac, designated R5, issued apparently in January. It apparently
installed it automatically, given the R5 designator in my "About
Quickbooks." I have no recollection of doing so.

I could not find on the official site anything about problems with
upgrading from Tiger to Leopard. There are complaints in Intuit's
user forum about the R5 Intuit update, which it is claimed fixed an
earlier Update. I see no need to buy a newer version of QB since the
one I have works just fine for our general ledger, printing checks,
etc. Will it continue to work in Leopard?

One Intuit forum poster claimed that in Leopard, Intuit "did not
support" 2006 QB for Mac, meaning anyone using that version and
earlier should PAY AGAIN to buy a newer version of the program even
though the older version still worked just fine on an earlier OS.

Are there any Tidbits members with Real Time experiences with this
Intuit QB problem moving from Tiger to Leopard? I note that Mr.
Carter's version was relatively older -- Ver 5? Mine is 18 months
old and should work, but Who Knows??? I would certainly hope that it
would continue to work, given I never expected it to be a bad piece
of software that stopped working after just 18 months.

Dave Clark

On 4-Mar-08, at 5:47 AM, Mac Carter wrote:

> We have been using QuickBooks Pro to manage our consulting business
> finances, but are now looking for an alternative. I upgraded all 3
> of our computers to Leopard and found that QuickBooks Pro (ver 5)
> simply stopped working. It will not start. We also heard about the
> awful situation last December when Intuit put out an update to Ver 7
> that deleted user data files. Given all the uproar about Intuit and
> their lack of support for QuickBooks for Mac, we thought we would
> look around for an alternative. Can anyone recommend something for us?

MoneyWorks... very similar in style to QB.

http://www.cognito.co.nz/

They have Canadian, US, and many other currencies and taxes supported.
In a single app, no need to buy a country specific one!

There are several versions, from single user CashBook to multiuser
network version Datacentre.

Cheers!

Dave
--
David Rostenne