Networking Problem

On Dec 14, 2007, at 3:24 PM, gidi wrote:

> I augmented my ADSL to 8Mbits (from 1Mbits), which meant buying a
> new modem (a Livebox, for the French Orange, ex Wanadoo, network).
> This screwed up my whole setup because my wired router does not
> speak to the new modem.
>
> My old setup: --Modem--router--Mac, Airport Express, Printer....
>
> Just replacing the old modem with the new Livebox doesn't work, even
> though supposedly the network is still PPPoE, and the router is set
> up correctly for that.
>
> I am connected by WiFi to the to the modem now, which means I do not
> benefit from the H/W firewall in my router.

The Livebox has a hardware firewall as well...
>
>
> Orange tech support does not want to deal with the router, and
> anyway they are useless (they couldn't help with the WiFi connection
> to the modem, and I had to solve the initial connection problems
> myself). Anyone has any ideas? Setup parameters in the router? The
> Modem? Ports? Network addresses? I am completely at sea, so
> embarking on a fishing expedition.


You want to connect the ethernet cable from the modem to the router to
the Livebox's yellow ethernet jack (on mine, at least, a Livebox Pro).
You should restart the Livebox after you connect it so it's
recognized. I was able to get it to work this way, even though I'm not
doing that now. (I've got it connected directly to my Mac Pro, and
have connected a router for testing to the red jack as well...)


Kirk

On or about 12/14/07 6:24 AM, thus spake "gidi" <gs.pubwanadoo.fr>:

> I augmented my ADSL to 8Mbits (from 1Mbits), which meant buying a new modem (a
> Livebox, for the French Orange, ex Wanadoo, network). This screwed up my whole
> setup because my wired router does not speak to the new modem.
>
> My old setup: --Modem--router--Mac, Airport Express, Printer....
>
> Just replacing the old modem with the new Livebox doesn't work, even though
> supposedly the network is still PPPoE, and the router is set up correctly for
> that.
>
> I am connected by WiFi to the to the modem now, which means I do not benefit
> from the H/W firewall in my router.

Why do you need the old router at all? The Livebox *is* a router and it
contains a firewall. m.

On 14/12/07 15:24, "gidi" <gs.pubwanadoo.fr> wrote:

> I augmented my ADSL to 8Mbits (from 1Mbits), which meant buying a new modem (a
> Livebox, for the French Orange, ex Wanadoo, network). This screwed up my whole
> setup because my wired router does not speak to the new modem.
[...]
> Orange tech support does not want to deal with the router, and anyway they are
> useless (they couldn't help with the WiFi connection to the modem, and I had
> to solve the initial connection problems myself). Anyone has any ideas? Setup
> parameters in the router? The Modem? Ports? Network addresses? I am completely
> at sea, so embarking on a fishing expedition.

You can't have two routers - well, technically you could, provided you could
set up addressing and routes correctly, and the basic hardware is capable of
accepting them (I know from experience that some Linksys routers accept
static routes, which in fact do not work at all - useless!), but that's
overkill for a home network anyways.
Either have the Livebox function as a simple modem (or bridge) if it can do
that, and have your router set up the ADSL connection through it like you
did with your old set up. I think you'll lose "triple-play" features like
telephony or TV this way, though.
Or discard your own router and only use the Livebox, by wire or wireless.
It's not like your router's firewall is needed anyways. Activate the Mac's
firewall if you're slightly paranoid, and that's it. Remember the Livebox's
NAT will already hide your Mac from the Internet, too.

-Thomas

At 6:24 AM -0800 12/14/07, gidi wrote:
>I augmented my ADSL to 8Mbits (from 1Mbits), which meant buying a
>new modem (a Livebox, for the French Orange, ex Wanadoo, network).
>This screwed up my whole setup because my wired router does not
>speak to the new modem.
>
>My old setup: --Modem--router--Mac, Airport Express, Printer....
>
>Just replacing the old modem with the new Livebox doesn't work, even
>though supposedly the network is still PPPoE, and the router is set
>up correctly for that.
>
>I am connected by WiFi to the to the modem now, which means I do not
>benefit from the H/W firewall in my router.
>
>Orange tech support does not want to deal with the router, and
>anyway they are useless (they couldn't help with the WiFi connection
>to the modem, and I had to solve the initial connection problems
>myself). Anyone has any ideas? Setup parameters in the router? The
>Modem? Ports? Network addresses? I am completely at sea, so
>embarking on a fishing expedition.

If the new Livebox DSL modem is also a router then you probably need
to remove the old router from your network and, if necessary,
configure the built-in router to support your local setup.

- Maretta

--On December 14, 2007 6:24:53 AM -0800 gidi <gs.pubwanadoo.fr> wrote:

> I am connected by WiFi to the to the modem now, which means I do not
> benefit from the H/W firewall in my router.
>
> Orange tech support does not want to deal with the router, and anyway
> they are useless (they couldn't help with the WiFi connection to the
> modem, and I had to solve the initial connection problems myself). Anyone
> has any ideas? Setup parameters in the router? The Modem? Ports? Network
> addresses? I am completely at sea, so embarking on a fishing expedition.

Do they lock the connection to a particular MAC address or computer name?
If your router has a MAC cloninging feature you might try that.

You might also try a factory reset on the router and reconfigure the PPOE
from scratch.

am 15.12.2007 11:03 Uhr schrieb tidbits-talktidbits.com unter
tidbits-talktidbits.com:
> I augmented my ADSL to 8Mbits (from 1Mbits), which meant buying a new modem (a
> Livebox, for the French Orange, ex Wanadoo, network). This screwed up my whole
> setup because my wired router does not speak to the new modem.
>
> My old setup: --Modem--router--Mac, Airport Express, Printer....

Well, I don't know what kind of equipment you use... but usually, the router
has a modem built in. Whether this piece of equipment works as a modem or as
a router is defined by the configuration settings.

Enter your connection data into the routers configuration settings and it
works as a router managing the connections on its own.

Configure it that the connection data are provided by the computer and it
works as a modem.

Udo

Hmm, thanks to all who responded.

Several of you asked why I needed to keep the router. Well:

a. I am indeed paranoid. Besides, I confess to not being aware that the Livebox contains a firewall, a fact not exactly well advertised by Orange.

b. WiFi for me is black magic. Maybe it reflects my age, but I don't trust a network I can't see. And this somewhat Luddite view is, unfortunately, vindicated, but more about this later.

c. I like to leave a wired port free for visitors to connect to the 'net. I have had bad experience with PC's and WiFi, and usually it is much simpler to simply plug in the visiting PC than to futz around with configuring it to use my WiFi network. Also, being paranoid, I prefer not sharing my precious passwords... The LiveBox has only two ports, not enough for two computers and a printer and a visitor.

Despite what several of you said, as far as I know you can connect two routers, by plugging the cable from the upstream router into the WAN port of the downstream one. From Kirk's experience with his Livebox, I deduce I am right. However, his advice did not work: I did try both red and yellow ports, but no joy. I even used a different cable, just in case the one supplied by Orange was faulty.

About black magic: after struggling with the WiFi part last week, I finally got my iMac and my wife's Cube set up. I am still connected, but the Cube has stopped recognising the Livebox's WiFi:

If I choose the network from the Airport menu, I get the message 'There was an error joining the Airport network "Livebox-xxxx"'.

If, in the Airport menu, I choose "Other" and enter all the relevant info, the message I get is 'The wireless network "Livebox-xxxx" does not support the requested encryption method'. And yet, in the first case WPA Personal is the only choice of encryption given, which is right and proper, since the Livebox is set up for WPA.

Stranger still: the same happens if I cancel encryption altogether in the Livebox and operate in the clear.

The Cube's airport functions OK, since it connects to the old Airport Express with no problems.

Any white magic practitioners out there?

TIA,

Gidi

am 18.12.2007 11:02 Uhr schrieb tidbits-talktidbits.com unter
tidbits-talktidbits.com:

> b. WiFi for me is black magic. Maybe it reflects my age, but I don't trust a
> network I can't see. And this somewhat Luddite view is, unfortunately,
> vindicated, but more about this later.
>
> c. I like to leave a wired port free for visitors to connect to the 'net. ...
> ... The LiveBox has only two ports, not enough for two computers and
> a printer and a visitor.

There is just no need to use two routers connected in a row. I own a
"Fritz!Box SL WLAN", this only has one port for connecting a computer
directly with an Ethernet cable. However, I just use this port to connect
the "Fritz!Box" to an Ethernet hub. Ethernet hubs for 10/100 Ethernet are
rather cheap nowadays. So all my computers are connected to the router via
the Ethernet hub via Ethernet/LAN cables. The access data for connecting to
my provider are entered in the configuration of the "Fritz!Box" and as soon
as one connected computer wants to access the Internet, it handles the rest.

Besides, meanwhile I use the WLAN functionality, too. It's just convenient
to sit on the terrace and use the PowerBook without having to run a cable
downstairs, through the living room, and onto the terrace. As I live in a
somewhat rural area, I have configured the "Fritz"Box" to filter the MAC
addresses. Only known MAC addresses are allowed to make a WLAN connection.
(As my daughter owns a Nintendo DS, which can't handle any encription, this
is the only way to run things. -- I'm monitoring the log file and in about
two years there wasn't a single login attempt by an unauthorized
computer....)

Udo

On 17/12/07 22:48, "gidi" <gs.pubwanadoo.fr> wrote:

> a. I am indeed paranoid. Besides, I confess to not being aware that the
> Livebox contains a firewall, a fact not exactly well advertised by Orange.

Paranoia can be cured. ;) You don't NEED a firewall when using a Mac. Mine
has been directly connected to the Internet 24 h a day, no router, no NAT,
no firewall (not even Mac OS X's one), for years. I apply security updates
quickly. I usually only run the SSH service. Granted, I do have Little
Snitch which would block any unexpected outgoing connection (so this is some
kind of firewall); it never reported anything, except one time when a test
account got hacked (very poor password), something a firewall wouldn't have
prevented (an IPS might have), and which wouldn't have happened in 10.5 now
that there's a simple way to restrict SSH to certain accounts.

> c. I like to leave a wired port free for visitors to connect to the 'net. I
> have had bad experience with PC's and WiFi, and usually it is much simpler to
> simply plug in the visiting PC than to futz around with configuring it to use
> my WiFi network. Also, being paranoid, I prefer not sharing my precious
> passwords... The LiveBox has only two ports, not enough for two computers and
> a printer and a visitor.

Plug a small cheap 4 or 8 port Ethernet switch behind the Livebox, and
you'll have all the ports you need.

> Despite what several of you said, as far as I know you can connect two
> routers, by plugging the cable from the upstream router into the WAN port of
> the downstream one. From Kirk's experience with his Livebox, I deduce I am
> right. However, his advice did not work: I did try both red and yellow ports,
> but no joy. I even used a different cable, just in case the one supplied by
> Orange was faulty.

Sure you can, but don't expect this setup to function without some work.
Building a basic network requires basic networking knowledge. First, unless
one of the routers has auto-MDIX capability, you need a cross-over cable.
Once you have link, you must configure an interconnection subnet between the
two routers. Finally, you add routes: the inside router needs a default
route towards the outside router, and the outside router needs a route for
your inside subnet pointing to the inside router. And that's provided the
routers, which haven't been designed to be used like this, can be configured
that way...

-Thomas

On 12/20/2007 06:22 AM, "Thomas Perrier" <thomasperrier.name> wrote:

> Paranoia can be cured. ;) You don't NEED a firewall when using a Mac. Mine
> has been directly connected to the Internet 24 h a day, no router, no NAT,
> no firewall (not even Mac OS X's one), for years.

The plural of "luck" is not "proof".

--
John C. Welch

First, a progress report: by disabling the DHCP and PPPoE functions of my router, I turned it into a simple switch, and now my iMac sees the modem through the switch. I now need to figure out how to make my two subnets (the one connected to the switch, the other connected through Airport Express to the second port of the Livebox) share the same address space, so my wife's Cube on the Airport can see the printer, which is connected to the switch.

As for Paranoia: the log of my router shows rejected connections at the rate of dozens per minute, every minute of every day. Granted, most of them are probably feeble PC centric attempts, but it is sufficient to have, in this sea of connection requests, one intelligent hacker looking for a Mac to cause much damage. Some security experts even claim that this is going to be the year of Mac exploits. So, my advice to you, Thomas: activate the Firewall in your Mac asap.

Thanks to y'all,

Gidi