Hands on with Kindle

mrstoneman wrote:
> Besides the problem of how the text looks, the idea of buying more books protected by excessive DRM rubs me the wrong way. What if a person no longer wants to use Kindle but still wants access to his books? Tough luck.
>
I've been using the Sony eReader for the last year or so, and have
purchased perhaps 20 or so books from Sony's eBook store. I had a
moment to rethink the wisdom of this when Sony unceremoniously shut down
their Connect Music store earlier this year. Their eBook store is still
alive, but now I have to worry about Sony deciding it no longer is
interested in the book business.

I have since become more careful about what I buy on the eBook
store---basically I now only purchase "read once" type books.

Tn

David Weintraub wrote:
>
> The Kindle is a product looking for something that doesn't need a
> solution. When I go on a trip, I might listen to hundreds of songs or
> podcasts. An MP3 player like the iPod filled a niche. When I go on a
> trip, I might read a half dozen books which really don't take up all
> that much room. Taking a Kindle loaded with a 100 books doesn't really
> do too much for me.
Well, I suppose that depends on what kind of books the half dozen are.
If they paperbacks, sure the half dozen doesn't add up to much. But if
your tastes run to things like history (still bulky in paperback) or you
want to read a new release not yet available in paperback, even carrying
two or three around might start to seem like a chore.

> Plus, ebooks create a few more problems than they solve. I do go to
> the library, and I borrow books from friends. In fact, most of what I
> read is either passed down to other members of my family, or sent to
> me from family when they finish their books. Until you can find a way
> to share a book on an ebook device, you don't have a viable solution
> to the "reading problem".
Having used the Sony reader for a year now, I have also noticed a
problem that is somewhat related to this issue---browsing. Often times,
I might visit a friend or family member and notice a particular book on
their shelf and either borrow it or buy it myself. By contrast, ebooks
are invisible. Similarly, I still find myself going to book stores a
lot because there is no digital equivalent to physical browsing. One of
the nice things about browsing in a bookstore or library is that while
you may or may not find the exact book you are looking for, you will
notice other similar or relevant books on shelves near by. I tell my
students that especially in the "literature review" stage of their
research projects, they will accomplish far more just by wandering
through the relevant locations of the library stacks, rather than
sitting in front of a catalog terminal doing title or keyword searches.
The problem that "search" is not a very good substitute for "browse" is
one frustrating aspect of the ebook experience.

Similarly, even when looking through one's own library, you can often
quickly scan a shelf and find books by what the spine *looks like*, not
by what the spine actually says. Where as finding a specific ebook
(either on a ebook device or the computer) is a much more cumbersome
process.

This might be partly alleviated by the clever use of something like
cover-flow in your library management software.

Tn

John C. Welch wrote:
> However, if you want books, but don't want to keep them due
> to space, I have a solution that is infinitely cheaper than the Kindle:
>
> The Library.

To cross threads here and take exception with the above in a positive
manner while making gift suggestions for the holidays:

Make a donation to your local public library - up to the 399 price of
a Kindle - and your library will still be cheaper (if not infinitely
so), and available for you and your community. Libraries are NOT
cheap, just free to use and invaluable resources.

Matt Lewkowicz

By the way, is anyone else uncomfortable with the name? Kindle suggests 'kindling, which suggests 'book-burning'.

Kindling a desire for knowledge?

Alan Forkosh wrote:
> On Nov 29, 2007, at 11:47 PM, Gregory Sigman wrote:
>> I've got to wonder if Kindle will ever be able to access the free
>> books at project Gutenberg? Unfettered free access to that library
>> might actually make the little gadget worth buying.
>>
>> <http://www.gutenberg.org/>
>
>
> Apparently so. See Andy Ihnatko's Kindle review at
> http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/672259,CST-FIN-Andy29.article
> where, as part of his testing, he used the Kindle to read a book
> downloaded from Project Gutenberg.
>
> By the way, is anyone else uncomfortable with the name? Kindle
> suggests 'kindling, which suggests 'book-burning'.
>
>
Actually it was meant as the start of something. As in kindling used to start a fire. Or so Bezos said on Charlie Rose the night after it was announced.

To be honest I know very few people who'd leap to "book-burning".

David

Carl S Zimmerman wrote:
> John C. Welch wrote:
>> if you want books, but don't want to keep them due
>> to space, I have a solution that is infinitely cheaper than the Kindle:
>>
>> The Library.
>
> There's just one problem with that. These days, many librarians are
> all too prone to discarding anything that hasn't been checked out in
> the last N years. (Initially I typed "NN", but that's probably too
> optimistic.) It makes me sick - I love the feel of a book in my
> hands, and my house is full of them.
>
So where do you warehouse this huge collection of dead trees? Our local libraries have a sale twice a year where you can buy old books for prices like $20 per box. Or less. It's much better than tossing them or not ordering new due to lack of shelf space.

David Ross

On Dec 3, 2007, at 6:33 AM, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:

> mrstoneman wrote:
>> Besides the problem of how the text looks, the idea of buying more
>> books protected by excessive DRM rubs me the wrong way. What if a
>> person no longer wants to use Kindle but still wants access to his
>> books? Tough luck.
>>
> I've been using the Sony eReader for the last year or so, and have
> purchased perhaps 20 or so books from Sony's eBook store. I had a
> moment to rethink the wisdom of this when Sony unceremoniously shut
> down
> their Connect Music store earlier this year. Their eBook store is
> still
> alive, but now I have to worry about Sony deciding it no longer is
> interested in the book business.
>
> I have since become more careful about what I buy on the eBook
> store---basically I now only purchase "read once" type books.


My plan, as an owner of an original Sony eReader, is to keep using it
until it dies, but not buy much if anything more for it (which, of
course, tends to hasten the demise of the store). As it is, I've only
paid for a book and a half--the rest came via the credit created by
purchase of the reader.

When the Sony dies, I'll take a look at Kindle and whatever else there
is.

Had I not bought, but had a chance to play with, Sony's reader, I
might (or might not) be interested in buying Kindle now.

   --John

At 6:33 AM -0800 12/3/07, Tomoharu Nishino wrote:
>I have since become more careful about what I buy on the eBook
>store---basically I now only purchase "read once" type books.

My mother calls those "beach books".
You know, the kind of books you take to the beach, and if they get
wet or you just forget to bring them home, well, that's fine.
--
-- Marshall

Gregory Sigman wrote:
>> The Library.
>
> Absolutely! If you haven't been to a public library lately, you
> should go. You might be amazed at what you can get for *free*. Well,
> already paid for by your taxes, technically, but free per use. Wifi
> access is pretty standard fare. Large DVD and CD collections. Brand
> new best sellers. Access to huge databases of serial literature.
> Don't see it? Ask the librarian. If they don't have it they can
> almost always have it shipped in from another library, again- *free*
> for you.

My wife and daughter love the library. The nearest public library is a bit over 4 miles away. My son and I rarely use it. It comes down to personality types.

I used to read a LOT of books. I read less now but figure that will change as the kids leave the house. But I tend to read in spurts. I may start a 400 page book, read 150 pages, put it down and not touch it for a week or few. Then pick it up and finish it in one sitting. This way of reading doesn't work with the library system unless you want to keep track of renewals and/or like paying fines. And my reading isn't in one place. I leave things all OVER the house. Which means going to the library involves a search mission to find all books ready to go back. After we figure out which books are on that list.

Kindle I could see for me somewhere around rev 2 or 3. Maybe. But then I'd have to keep finding the thing. The one thing I totally love about my cell phone and a major point keeping me from buying an iPhone is that it fits in my pocket. It's down right tiny. I always have it with me. It's not on but at least I can find it. :)

David Ross

> By the way, is anyone else uncomfortable with the name? Kindle suggests
> 'kindling, which suggests 'book-burning'.
>
>
>Kindling a desire for knowledge?

That is the intent, or so I gather, but any association between fires
and books is just bound to end badly...

--
Greg Sigman

Tomoharu Nishino wrote:
> mrstoneman wrote:
>> Besides the problem of how the text looks, the idea of buying more
>> books protected by excessive DRM rubs me the wrong way. What if a
>> person no longer wants to use Kindle but still wants access to his
>> books? Tough luck.
>>
> I've been using the Sony eReader for the last year or so, and have
> purchased perhaps 20 or so books from Sony's eBook store. I had a
> moment to rethink the wisdom of this when Sony unceremoniously shut down
> their Connect Music store earlier this year. Their eBook store is still
> alive, but now I have to worry about Sony deciding it no longer is
> interested in the book business.

Sony is not in the book business. They are in the electronics gadgets business. And the rest is to try and drive sales of said devices. The problem with their music and video/movie businesses is that they run them independent of the electronics business. Or with only occasional touches.

Now Apple has totally welded the ITMS with the iPod. And the synergy seems to work. :)

David Ross

Matt Lewkowicz wrote:
> John C. Welch wrote:
>> However, if you want books, but don't want to keep them due
>> to space, I have a solution that is infinitely cheaper than the Kindle:
>>
>> The Library.
>
> To cross threads here and take exception with the above in a positive
> manner while making gift suggestions for the holidays:
>
> Make a donation to your local public library - up to the 399 price of
> a Kindle - and your library will still be cheaper (if not infinitely
> so), and available for you and your community. Libraries are NOT
> cheap, just free to use and invaluable resources.

Now I have to wonder. Since the public libraries around here are owned by the city, I wonder if money donated to the library doesn't eventually wind up supporting new street lights on the other side of town. Money is always fungible.

David Ross

Not sure how *this* fits into the Kindle, the future of the book, or
anything....!

<http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/12/02/in-japan-half-the-top-selling-books-ar
e-written-on-mobile-phones/>

m.

--On 12/4/07 6:19 AM -0800 David Ross wrote:

> Sony is not in the book business. They are in the electronics gadgets
> business.

No, in fact. Sony is also largely in the "content-provider" business (Sony
pictures, Sony music), and those portions of the company have grown to dominate
the electronics gadgets business.

One thing that has hurt Sony's gadget business is that the movie and music
folks have gotten too much control, so the Sony decision-makers care more about
implementing strict DRM than about releasing gadgets/devices that are appealing
to users.

(A specific case: never buy a Sony DVD player if you think you might want to
play out-of-region DVDs. Almost all other brands have the region code set by
firmware or a switch, and there's some kind of hack available to let you switch
it. On most Sonys, it's fixed and there's no way to change it unless you can
get some hardware parts and a soldering iron.)

I suspect that where e-books are concerned--whether Sony currently has a
publishing arm or not--they will be more interested in implementing purportedly
bulletproof DRM than in making an appealing reader.

Dave Scocca

At 6:19 AM -0800 12/4/07, David Ross wrote:
>Now I have to wonder. Since the public libraries around here are owned by
>the city, I wonder if money donated to the library doesn't eventually wind
>up supporting new street lights on the other side of town. Money is always
>fungible.

        Most libraries have some not-for-profit group associated with them
called something like "friends of the local library". Of course I suppose
if they get enough donation money, their tax money could be reduced....

        See for example "The Friends of The Urbana Free Library"

<http://urbanafreelibrary.org/support_ufl/friends_of_library/>

--
* Johann Beda - contact link: <http://xri.net/=j-beda> *
* Johann's MostlyMac Computer Consulting - <http://mmcc.beda.ca/> *

[ I also associated "Kindle" with book-burning....]

I've got more than $1000 worth of books in Palm ereader format. I have read them on successive generations of Palms over the past 10 years. One can also load the free reader onto your mac (or PC) so it seems less likely that they'll ever disappear entirely. As long as I hold onto that mac reader software.

The Kindle's e-ink might be a whole lot nicer on my aging eyes, and I would probably be an early Kindle adopter .... if they would let me translate my .pdb e-reader format books into Kindle format. For free. But I'm not about to switch over to Kindle with this many books in my library! 40 or 50 of these ebooks are still waiting to be read, too, so it's not just past books that hold me back.

You can get a lot of reading done just one a cell phone. The small size makes it ultra portable and always with you. I use http://www.booksinmyphone.com they provide a good selection of pubic domain and creative commons books free. You can download straight into the phone or install via a computer.

Johann Beda wrote:
> At 6:19 AM -0800 12/4/07, David Ross wrote:
>> Now I have to wonder. Since the public libraries around here are owned by
>> the city, I wonder if money donated to the library doesn't eventually wind
>> up supporting new street lights on the other side of town. Money is always
>> fungible.
>
> Most libraries have some not-for-profit group associated with them
> called something like "friends of the local library". Of course I suppose
> if they get enough donation money, their tax money could be reduced....

If you don't believe it will, well, "I have this bridge...."

We have had our "Education Lottery" here in NC for a year or so now. Anyone who believes that eventually funds from this will not reduce future total school spending, well again "I have this bridge..."

David Ross

Gregory Sigman <sigmanohio.edu> wrote:

> That is the intent, or so I gather, but any association between fires
> and books is just bound to end badly...

Fahrenheit 451...

;-)

avagee wrote:
> You can get a lot of reading done just one a cell phone. The small
> size makes it ultra portable and always with you. I use
> <http://www.booksinmyphone.com> they provide a good selection of
> pubic domain and creative commons books free. You can download
> straight into the phone or install via a computer.

Nothing wrong with youth but I'm guessing your eyes haven't changed enough to have to deal with glasses to read. With me since I started out with poor distance vision it's more a mater of deciding whether or not to downgrade my distance to see more clearly up close but I still have to deal with taking off my glasses to read small things. Reading on a cell phone display is NOT easy or convenient for me and many others for more than the basics of a short text message or to operate the phone.

As once said in a movie, "Youth is wasted on the young!"

:)

David Ross