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![[F]](/Images/i7/site.gif) TidBITS  TidBITS TidBITS Talk
Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4![[dbjarvis]](/webx/?30@@1) dbjarvis - 10:59am Oct 30, 2007 PSTMy Leopard DVD arrived via FedEx by 10:30 AM on October 26, as
promised. By noon it was successfully installed on my iMac G5 , with
Time Machine operating. I had already done backup and other
preparation but the installation was fast and automatic, as I had
come to expect from Apple. Unfortunately, our Power Mac G4 did not meet the minimum
requirements, even though more than fast enough for the Internet,
iPhoto, DVD Player and word processing we use it for. Tiger is quite
satisfactory but they would be easier to use if both had the same OS.
I realize there are risks in hacking against Apple but web reference,
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=371302
indicated that it was likely to be satisfactory. I can confirm that
it worked for me and Leopard and Time Machine are operating
satisfactorily on both G4 and G5, connected together on a local
network. The G4 sleeps and wakes up as before with Tiger. The G4 is 533 MHz compared with minimum of 8676 and has 344 MB
compared with 512. It had been upgraded with a DVD but this was not
necessary as I used the second internal 40 GB disk instead. Compared
with the above reference, I simplified the procedure by doing most of
the processing on the iMac because Leopard has all the necessary
software and by installing from the G4 second disk rather than making
a new install DVD, which I never succeeded in doing. The following is
an outline of the procedure. On Leopard G5, Inset Apple Leopard DVD and make "New Image" with Disk Utility.
Mount image.
With Finder, create folder OSInstall on Desktop.
In Terminal as root:
cd to this folder OSInstall
xar -x -v -f /Volumes/"Mac OS Install
DVD"/System/Installation/Packages/OSInstall.mpkg
This produces the contents of mpkg in the folder . One file,
"Distribution", contains a script.
pico Distribution and edit:
About line 15 change minimum memory from 512 to 344.
About line 40 change minimum speed from 866000000 to 533000000
Note that this file is interesting in telling all the restrictions.
There is probably no chance that Leopard will work on a G3 or if
there is no Vector unit.
Save.
xar -c ./ -v -f /Volumes/"Mac OS Install
DVD"/System/Installation/Packages/OSInstall.mpkg
To replace the original package in the disk image. On G4 Tiger, copy disk image from G5 to G4 desktop
Remove any non-Apple system software such as "Fruitmenu" and "Ape"
With Carbon Copy Cloner (or perhaps Disk Utility) "restore" Disk
Image to G4 second disk.
Reboot from this second disk and perform normal Leopard installation.
Note that a Firewire external disk could be used instead of the
internal disk. There is no DVD so, if possible, keep a copy of the
modified disk image. I now use the second disk for Time Machine,
although an external disk would be somewhat safer. The only remaining limitation is that updated software for a Microtek
scanner is not yet available.
HP printer and Canon digital camera work fine. IMHO, Leopard is well worth its cost. Denis Jarvis
Matt Neuburg (apparently)
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Nov 1, 2007 6:50 am
(#1 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
On or about 10/30/07 10:59 AM, thus spake "dbjarvis" <dbjarvis  peak.org>:
> On Leopard G5, Inset Apple Leopard DVD and make "New Image" with Disk Utility.
> Mount image. With Finder, create folder OSInstall on Desktop. In Terminal as
> root: cd to this folder OSInstall xar -x -v -f /Volumes/"Mac OS Install
> DVD"/System/Installation/Packages/OSInstall.mpkg This produces the contents of
> mpkg in the folder . One file, "Distribution", contains a script. pico
> Distribution and edit: About line 15 change minimum memory from 512 to 344.
> About line 40 change minimum speed from 866000000 to 533000000 Note that this
> file is interesting in telling all the restrictions. There is probably no
> chance that Leopard will work on a G3 or if there is no Vector unit. Save. xar
> -c ./ -v -f /Volumes/"Mac OS Install
> DVD"/System/Installation/Packages/OSInstall.mpkg To replace the original
> package in the disk image.
I don't think there's any need for all that. I've heard that if you treat a
computer as a firewire target disk you can just install right onto it.
Alternatively, install onto an actual firewire external disk and start up
from it. I'm hearing reports of the computer being usable (with some
glitches) well below the official minimum. m.
--
matt neuburg, phd = matt tidbits.com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
pantes anthropoi tou eidenai oregontai phusei
Among the 2007 MacTech Top 25, http://tinyurl.com/2rh4pf
AppleScript: the Definitive Guide, http://tinyurl.com/2ouo3b
Take Control of Customizing Tiger, http://tinyurl.com/33ad5s
TidBITS, Mac news and reviews since 1990, http://www.tidbits.com
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Lewis Butler (apparently)
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Nov 2, 2007 5:25 am
(#2 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
On 1-Nov-2007, at 07:50, Matt Neuburg wrote:
> I'm hearing reports of the computer being usable (with some
> glitches) well below the official minimum. m.
Runs fine on a 500Mhz G4. Haven't installed it on the 400Mhz imac,
but I will.
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dbjarvis (apparently)
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Nov 6, 2007 6:16 am
(#3 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
>>On or about 10/30/07 10:59 AM, thus spake "dbjarvis" <dbjarvis peak.org>:
>>
>>> On Leopard G5, Insert Apple Leopard DVD and make "New Image" with
>>>Disk Utility.
>>> Mount image. With Finder, create folder OSInstall on Desktop. In
>>>Terminal as
>>> root: cd to this folder OSInstall xar -x -v -f /Volumes/"Mac OS Install
>>> DVD"/System/Installation/Packages/OSInstall.mpkg This produces
>>>the contents of
>>> mpkg in the folder . One file, "Distribution", contains a script. pico
>>> Distribution and edit: About line 15 change minimum memory from 512 to 344.
>>> About line 40 change minimum speed from 866000000 to 533000000
>>>Note that this
>>> file is interesting in telling all the restrictions. There is probably no
>>> chance that Leopard will work on a G3 or if there is no Vector
>>>unit. Save. xar
>>> -c ./ -v -f /Volumes/"Mac OS Install
>>> DVD"/System/Installation/Packages/OSInstall.mpkg To replace the original
>> > package in the disk image.
But then on 11/01/07, Matt Neuburg was dismissive:
>I don't think there's any need for all that. I've heard that if you treat a
>computer as a firewire target disk you can just install right onto it.
>Alternatively, install onto an actual firewire external disk and start up
>from it. I'm hearing reports of the computer being usable (with some
>glitches) well below the official minimum. m.
The purpose in reporting my procedure was to show the existence of a
simple and reliable procedure to circumvent the annoying and
unnecessary G4 restriction imposed by Apple. I had neither the time
not the knowledge to try to find the best hack.
Nevertheless, these are two different types of hack with different risks.
Mine provides a normal installation on the target machine. The only
risk is that the resulting OS might be too slow.
The other method uses a second Mac to host the installation and so
produces an OS for that host. Hence the resulting OS is of unknown
compatibility when used by the Target G4. The only host I had
readily available was an iMac G5 and, as I am wary of installation
hacks, I decided not to take unnecessary risks.
Can anyone tell us about this compatibility? For each target which
hosts would create a usable installation? Is the installed system
significantly different for: G4, G5, Intel,number of CPUs, display
controller, PMU, etc. ? How much is the OS able to dynamically
adjust at load time?
Denis Jarvis
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David Barto
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Nov 6, 2007 7:20 am
(#4 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
I used the 'Firewire target' technique. But first - I installed to an external HD and booted the machine from that, to make sure that it would boot and run properly. After verification, I installed using the HD as a target drive from my laptop.
I can understand why Apple would set minimums on processor speed: To ensure a good user experience. Apple is all about that, and keeping it useful when adding massive amounts of work to the system seems only logical.
Now - Anybody know if I can take my old 867 Mhz processor from my Quicksilver I upgraded and stuff it into my Sawtooth? :-)
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johnbaxterlists (apparently)
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Nov 7, 2007 3:39 am
(#5 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
> Can anyone tell us about this compatibility? For each target which
> hosts would create a usable installation? Is the installed system
> significantly different for: G4, G5, Intel,number of CPUs, display
> controller, PMU, etc. ? How much is the OS able to dynamically
> adjust at load time?
Well, during my preparation to upgrade (erase and install then
migrate) my Mini (early G4 Mini), I made the third bootable clone
using SuperDuper (the clone on a different spindle than the other
two). I then meant to test that that clone was bootable--but instead,
forgetting my totally simple naming convention, booted the clone I had
made of the Leopard** (upgrade) install on my early Macbook (Core Duo,
not Core 2 Duo).
That boot seemed to go OK (to my surprise), but all I did was observe
that it got to the login screen, log in, and shut the machine down. I
don't know whether there were "little non-working details" to be
discovered.
** Before I knew that SuperDuper isn't compatible with Leopard (my
guess is it's the hard-linkable directories, among perhaps other
things). That clone boots the Macbook (to the same level of testing).
I'm concerned about trying on my dual 533 G4--I suspect that Leopard
would be fine, but I fear the very old (and generic) video card that's
running my second monitor. But maybe when SuperDuper claims
compatibility, I'll give a clone of the Mini a try.
--John
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Lewis Butler (apparently)
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Nov 7, 2007 3:39 am
(#6 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
On 6-Nov-2007, at 06:16, Denis Jarvis wrote:
> The other method uses a second Mac to host the installation and so
> produces an OS for that host.
No, I don't think this has been true since Mac OS 8. It certainly was
true for System 7, but I don't think it was for OS 9. OS X installs
are the same across all machines, barring any changes in the installer
configuration as selected by the user (for example, I don't install
the translations of most of the printers on the laptop to conserve
space).
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Dan Frakes (apparently)
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Nov 7, 2007 3:48 am
(#7 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
On 11/6/2007 5:16 AM, "Denis Jarvis" wrote:
> The purpose in reporting my procedure was to show the existence of a
> simple and reliable procedure to circumvent the annoying and
> unnecessary G4 restriction imposed by Apple. I had neither the time
> not the knowledge to try to find the best hack.
>
> Nevertheless, these are two different types of hack with different risks.
>
> Mine provides a normal installation on the target machine. The only
> risk is that the resulting OS might be too slow.
>
> The other method uses a second Mac to host the installation and so
> produces an OS for that host. Hence the resulting OS is of unknown
> compatibility when used by the Target G4. The only host I had
> readily available was an iMac G5 and, as I am wary of installation
> hacks, I decided not to take unnecessary risks.
This is not completely accurate. Mac OS X, unlike the "classic" Mac OS, is
not machine-specific; an installation on one Mac model will also work on a
different model.
The exceptions are the PowerPC-only version of OS X, which won't boot an
Intel Mac, and the bundled versions of OS X that come with brand-new
hardware to support that hardware. In the latter case, subsequent updates to
OS X add such compatibility to OS X in general.
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Thomas Perrier
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Nov 7, 2007 3:56 am
(#8 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
On 6/11/07 15:20, "David Barto" <david.barto viasat.com> wrote:
> Now - Anybody know if I can take my old 867 Mhz processor from my Quicksilver
> I upgraded and stuff it into my Sawtooth? :-)
It's doable, but serious modding is needed:
< http://homepage.mac.com/josephk/G4_mod.html>.
-Thomas
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Paul McLauren
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Dec 6, 2007 2:41 pm
(#9 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
Guys! Copying and modifying DVDs, using another Mac for this or Darwin Ports... O, no!
There is a SIMPLE (no burning nor copying, one machine is required) and FAST (about 1 minute) way to tell OS X 10.5 Installer that you have a good machine. 1) Enter OpenFirmware console (reboot and hold Command+Option+O+F).
2) Type dev /cpus ls (then press Return key).
3) Notice your CPU's name (for example, "PowerPC,G4 0").
4) Type it so: dev PowerPC,G40 .properties.
5) [OPTIONAL] Look at your current "clock-frequency". To convert it to decimal number, use 1bd0c4a9 .d (where 1bd0c4a9 is a value of clock-frequency property on my machine).
6) Type 40000000 encode-int " clock-frequency" property. Notice a space after first quote.
7) Again, .properties. Is there any changes? ;)
8) Now, use bye and enjoy the installation process.
P.S. Leopard is incredibly slow on my machine (PowerMac G4 Digital Audio 466MHz). DVDplayer's frame rate is 2...4. Awfully! The reason: Leopard was optmized for Intel.
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me100 (apparently)
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Dec 7, 2007 5:16 am
(#10 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
On Dec 6, 2007, at 1:41 PM, "Paul McLauren" <vcodes programmer.net> wrote:
>
> P.S. Leopard is incredibly slow on my machine (PowerMac G4 Digital
> Audio 466MHz). DVDplayer's frame rate is 2...4. Awfully! The reason:
> Leopard was optmized for Intel
I'd imagine a bigger reason DVD Player is slow is that machine used
hardware DVD decoding (if my memory is accurate) and since Apple
doesn't support that hardware they didn't include drivers. That forces
he unit to use software decoding which is way slower...
--
Duncan
Not sent from a BlackBerry.
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Thomas Perrier
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Dec 7, 2007 5:16 am
(#11 Total: 11)
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Re: Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
On 6/12/07 22:41, "Paul McLauren" <vcodes programmer.net> wrote:
> P.S. Leopard is incredibly slow on my machine (PowerMac G4 Digital Audio
> 466MHz). DVDplayer's frame rate is 2...4. Awfully! The reason: Leopard was
> optmized for Intel.
No Leopard performance problems on my lowly single 1.8 GHZ G5, compared to
the 10.4.
Let me offer another possible explanation (more probable too, because at
only 2 fps, that wouldn't a problem of optimization, but of deliberate
slowness):
- DVD Player or the DVD decoding library or the DVD hardware acceleration
library present a bug on this Mac.
- This Mac isn't supported by the 10.5
- Ergo, no one ever noticed the bug at Apple, and it will never be fixed.
Hacking has its limits. You should try with VLC maybe.
-Thomas
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TidBITS TidBITS TidBITS Talk Installing Leopard on an Unsupported G4
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