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Too many text editors, text storage, outliners out there

[fcchuan]fcchuan - 10:40am Oct 30, 2007 PST

I have a big rant about having too many text editors/text storage methods.

Does anyone else feel that there are already too many ways to take notes? I mean, when I want to make notes, or summarise a paper, I have to mentally weigh the advantages and disadvantages of taking notes using different applications.

Leopard itself has Stickies, TexEdit, and now Mail.app wants to do it too. iLife brings Pages. Office brings Word: and the MacBU has been emphasising its note-taking ability in the last version.

Then there are highly regarded outliners like OmniOutliner, Mori, Acta, CircusPonies NoteBook. Other one-trick ponies like Voodoopad, SubthaEdit, Missing Sync's notebook. Text "storage" areas like DevonThink, and Notebook.

Then there are the more garden-variety text editors like TextWrangler, Tex-Edit Plus, TexMate.

There's also graphical mind-mapping software like Novamind.

I'm annoyed that when I'm in OmniOutliner, I can't draw tables (use Pages or Word instead). I can take a screenshot of a table from Word/Pages, but then I have a save a separate file.

I'm annoyed that I can't draw arrows between points or scribble on the sheet (use Keynote, or PowerPoint, or mindmap software).

I'm annoyed that when I want to draw tables, I have to consider whether it's going to be a big big one, in which case, Excel or Numbers may handle better than Word or Pages.

I'm annoyed that NoteBook allows highlighting directly, in different colours. As does Word. While OmniOutliner allows it by changing some styles (for each colour), and using hotkeys. But Pages doesn't.

I"m annoyed that if I'm using Pages, and want to link between ideas, I yearn for the flexibility of VoodooPad.

But when I use VoodooPad, I love the sketch feature, love the linking. But the outlining is rudimentary.

I'm annoyed that if I want to mentally learn, and revise something, I have to copy from whatever format, into iFlash—which only supports plaintext.

I'm annoyed that I couldn't annotate PDF content easily until Skim arrived. And then the changes are saved in a non-standard format. And Preview saves in a standard format, allows highlighting, but only in yellow. And most annotations are unremovable. PDFPen is better in that annotations are editable, but highlights (in multiple colours) are still not. The big mutha: Acrobat Professional has editable highlighting, but only in yellow.

I'm annoyed that text I want to sync to the Palm, must live in Missing Sync or Sohonotes. And if I create a fancy document with "rich text", photos etc, that I have to convert it to text before sending it to the Palm.

I'm annoyed now, that applications like PowerPoint (and now Numbers) have a 2nd job as a cheap desktop publishing app. How many people have seen PowerPoint being recruited to create a mega-sized presentation poster. And having used Numbers, I'm wonder now whether it is a solid way to create gorgeous handouts containing text and photos, even without a spreadsheet on it. Or would Keynote be better…

I find my easiest text storage area, is writing at the end of the day in Journlr, or Matt Neuburg's Diary, since my needs at that time are low, all I need is text, and the application takes care of the filing.

Once upon a time, we talked about document-centric computing. I think Mac OS X has contributed a bit, through window-to-front-when-clicked, as opposed to the entire application. And also through a very robust text management offered to Cocoa that at least makes copy-paste, and import between applications quite reliable. And applications inherit high end features like rotating graphics, shadows and so on.

However, we used to think about concepts of using containers, like in OpenDoc. OpenDoc had no chance, when grafted on top of System 7. And would probably still not work now. But I miss that idea. I wish I could have a blank slate. With best-of-breed outlining in a corner, containing an link to a table. That contains data that updates in a graph. With an editable equation that resembles the best of what TeX can create, but editable in place. With a hyperlink to a 2nd page. Searchable by Spotlight, but can be tagged in a manner found in EagleFiler. Or incorporated into a database like Sohonotes.

Of course all in open formats, and exchangeable to the world, and which has a print mode like the one in Numbers. Unfortunately, I feel bad requesting features from developers—"add this feature like that application has". I wish that each application could just incorporate the unique features... of each other.

Apologies in advance if I've underestimated a feature of one of the above applications.


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watson633 - Nov 7, 2007 3:39 am (#1 Total: 6)  

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Re: Too many text editors, text storage, outliners out there

Agree to (almost) all of the above: I must have about 20 editors/outliners/storage. However, my needs are specificaly those of a scientist, and so I've thought aboiut the issues of designing from the top down, rather than trying to manipulate from the bottom up. What I'd like would be a "Scientific Outliner" containing or linking to:

a) a library organiser for downloaded papers (which really means pdf files), that I can comment on and instantaneously link to. Bibtex does this part of the job, Skim a different part.

b) a Tex editor for notes: Texshop is a superb editor, but is designed for typesetting papers rather than linking notes which can subsequently be assembled into something more formal

c) a scratchpad calculator: Mathpad is very good

d) a Tex editor for equations: Mathtype is very good, and the new version will be able to edit Tex directly

e) a low-end drawing program: most of the serious ones (e.g. Omnigraffle) are far too sophisticated.

f) a way of linking all of this to the serious stuff: e.g. (depending on your field) C-programs, Excel, plotting programs like Pro Fit, photo-files, Maple, Mathematica

g) An interface like (maybe) Journler or OmniOutliner to tie everything together

Much of this exists and quite a lot is free. It's the integration that would be the key (and hard!).

George Wade (apparently) - Nov 8, 2007 8:56 am (#2 Total: 6)  

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Re: Too many text editors, text storage, outliners out there

Ilife and iWork are well integrated, but the rest of the world has
very little in this direction.

There used to be OLE. Are there any other ideas along those lines?

George

- Nov 9, 2007 4:48 am (#3 Total: 6)  

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Re: Too many text editors, text storage, outliners out there



> On Nov 7, 2007, at 4:39 AM, watson633 wrote:
>
> Agree to (almost) all of the above: I must have about 20 editors/
> outliners/storage. However, my needs are specificaly those of a
> scientist, and so I've thought aboiut the issues of designing from
> the top down, rather than trying to manipulate from the bottom up.
> What I'd like would be a "Scientific Outliner" containing or linking
> to:
>
> a) a library organiser for downloaded papers (which really means pdf
> files), that I can comment on and instantaneously link to. Bibtex
> does this part of the job, Skim a different part.

Have you looked at Papers? It is a very cool integration, especially
for scientists/researchers.

http://mekentosj.com/papers/

Ray

Lukas Mathis - Nov 9, 2007 4:54 am (#4 Total: 6)  

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Re: Too many text editors, text storage, outliners out there

>There used to be OLE. Are there any other ideas along those lines?

Well, there was Publish & Subscribe in System 7, and there was OpenDoc.

More recently, there's LinkBack, a framework which allows pasted
Object to be linked back to their original applications.
<http://www.linkbackproject.org/>

Some applications which support it are Nisus Writer Express,
VoodooPad, Lineform, OmniGraffle and OmniOutliner.

exegete77 - Nov 10, 2007 4:26 am (#5 Total: 6)  

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Re: Too many text editors, text storage, outliners out there

I am guilty here, too. It would be convenient to combine especially the top three into one comprehensive program.

Mellel for those papers where Greek and Hebrew are used along with English Nisus Writer Pro for smaller projects and quick projects MS Word for that which requires cross-platform work Tex-Edit Plus for quick cleanup of junk text files

Then for good measure Papyrus, Ragtime, and Pages 05 for writing/layout combos.

And finally my outline/organize program Scrivener, which I have had only for a month but see great potential for it.

Rich

mrstoneman - Nov 12, 2007 3:04 am (#6 Total: 6)  

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Re: Too many text editors, text storage, outliners out there

I hear you. I have spent too much time playing with different features. I enjoy it most of the time, but still, it can get a bit crazy. The Linkback feature another reader mentioned is important and a possible solution to much shareware integration. Would that more got involved in it!

Another format I've found helpful is OPML. At least then I can move between mind maps from Incubator and outlines. Still, it's irritating how Incubator adds columns of data that are irrelevant once one moves outside of that application. I wish it gave me a choice of which data it exported.

These days, one of the first features I look at in a new application is its ability to import and export data and thus play well with other applications, even other platforms.

Mark Stoneman <http://onmymac.blogspot.com>



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