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Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store

[johnbaxterlists]johnbaxterlists (apparently) - 04:33pm Sep 28, 2007 PST
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I've visited Amazon's new store but not (yet) bought anything.

That said...

1. The listening quality, as between iTunes Plus' encoding and
Amazon's, probably depends more on the quality of the source from
which the music was encoded than on the encoding form (AAC or higher-
bit-rate MP3). There's probably no way for most of us to tell,
barring use of a really bad source by one store or the other*. (The
musicians here will have to guide me, and probably many of us--but if
I can't hear the difference it doesn't matter to me. I don't listen
for 18 hours a day as some seem to, so extra fatigue due to
inaudible--to me--differences wouldn't matter to me either.)

*And since the music companies seem to be trying to take iTunes store
down a notch, the last thing they would do is supply Amazon with
lesser source than they've supplied to Apple--perhaps better source,
though.

2. What portable player is the music likely to be played on?
Players people have (also known as iPods). Even if paid download
market share evens out between Amazon and Apple (and I wouldn't want
to be anyone else except a niche player at this point), that's good
for iPod sales as long as Apple makes the iPod attractive. I know
Windows users less than delighted with iTunes the application*--the
Amazon download application frees them from the need for iTunes (as I
understand it). So long as there exists a non- iTunes Windows program which can load MP3 music onto iPods, that is...

Apple may have to be a little more careful about keeping iPod the
attractive "in" thing now. In the long run it may hurt Apple, but
"in the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)

*One reason is that as shipped, the accompanying QuickTime loads at
startup, bothering those who care about minimizing that sort of
thing. It doesn't NEED to load at startup: things work fine if the
loading is deferred until first need (good old msconfig is one way to
stop it).

3. How will we know it's a success? One way would be watching
Microsoft to see whether MS decides it's better to direct sales to
Amazon than to make them itself (with or without kickback).

4. Those of the most recent MacBreak Weekly panel who have affiliate
relationships with Amazon say that yes, the payments from Amazon work
with referrals to the music download store. That certainly won't
hurt the store's early success. And they say that those
relationships are easier to set up and generally "better" then
Apple's equivalent--with the direct competition in music download
sales, Apple may have to fix their program, which would be good for
many out here. (I don't know--I'm not a player in the space.)

   --John



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Jamie Kahn Genet - Sep 28, 2007 4:35 pm (#1 Total: 13)  

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Amazon MP3 Store is pretty damn good, but of course there's _always_ a catch :-(

Amazon MP3 store: <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/browse/-/163856011/ref=topnav_stor etab_dm_hp_nav_lk/105-2523711-3309222>

To buy an album you need their special downloader/installer software which only runs on Winblows or MacOS 10.4. Well isn't that just _dandy_ given I still use MacOS 10.3 on my Macs and Linux on my PCs. WTF do they require this? There is NO good reason :-( They even let you buy individual tracks without enforcing use of their special software. But not albums??? :-(

If there's a worry users might not be able to handle multiple downloads beginning at once, well then just distribute albums as ZIP archives, or make their downloader/installer software a cross-platform Java app. Or an Ajax web app could also handle the downloading, if not the installing (but how freakin' hard is dragging the music files onto iTunes' icon to import it?). Or could an Ajax web app also handle installing? I'm not sure. Thoughts?

Still, their prices are far cheaper than the iTMS and they've no DRM across the board. Their selection isn't anything to write home about, but hopefully that will change. I just wish I could buy albums!!! :-( For anything else I'll be picking them over the iTMS, but I _won't_ upgrade my OS just to get a service - albums - that shouldn't require ANY special software in the first place. How stupid and pointless is that?

It's not hard to imagine this happening a few years ago and ALL Mac users being left out in the cold. In fact, even today that's so common I'd probably have not even blinked before continuing to happily buy from the iTMS and buy regular old CDs from the local music shop, instead.

But what makes this situation so frustrating is Amazon had a chance here to make a truly platform agnostic online music store with a decent general catalogue - not just indie stuff - and they BLEW IT at the LAST MOMENT! Gaaaah! :-(

Regards, Jamie Kahn Genet

-- If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.

jiclark - Sep 29, 2007 7:58 am (#2 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store

I know Windows users less than delighted with iTunes the application*--the Amazon download application frees them from the need for iTunes (as I understand it)


Just a quick note to clarify that the Amazon MP3 Downloader does *not* free you from the need for iTunes to get your tracks onto the iPod. I would bet there are other apps on Windows that ought to be able to stand in, but all the Amazon app does is provide a tool to download entire albums and add them to iTunes automatically.

On another point, I would bet there will be hackers who figure out how to bypass the 10.4.10 requirement, if that's at all possible...

Good luck, John

schinder (apparently) - Sep 29, 2007 7:58 am (#3 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store

johnbaxterlistsmac.com wrote:
> I've visited Amazon's new store but not (yet) bought anything.

I looked around, downloaded the free download (ehh), searched for a few
of my favorite performers (nothing), looked at the classical section
(ehh). Nothing really grabs me right now about it. (Now if only they'd
realized that they should make their videos multi-platform as well...)

That said, if they have something I want, I'd certainly buy it there
(why not, I buy lots of stuff from Amazon). I certainly don't mind
buying MPEG's; I've "ripped" my cassettes and vinyl into MPEG, and
iTunes downloads lots of MPEG podcasts for me.

--
Paul Schinder
schinderpobox.com

johnbaxterlists (apparently) - Sep 30, 2007 2:36 am (#4 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store

On Sep 29, 2007, at 7:58 AM, jiclark wrote:

> I know Windows users less than delighted with iTunes the
> application*--the
> Amazon download application frees them from the need for
> iTunes (as I
> understand it)
>
> Just a quick note to clarify that the Amazon MP3 Downloader does
> *not* free you from the need for iTunes to get your tracks onto the
> iPod. I would bet there are other apps on Windows that ought to be
> able to stand in, but all the Amazon app does is provide a tool to
> download entire albums and add them to iTunes automatically.

I tried to correct my foolish error in a followup message, which I
didn't see in the list.

   --John


Nik (apparently) - Sep 30, 2007 2:36 am (#5 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store

I checked out the Amazon MP3 store as soon as it launched and it's
actually improved a lot since then. The day after I tried it out, they
added a lot more guidance to good songs and also added a "Download
this in MP3" on their CD listings.

The big change for me is that I can browse Amazon for CDs and
sometimes (often?) find the option to save money and/or time by
picking up the downloadable version. I eschew the iTMS because my
wife's Rio won't play AAC, nor will my car's CD/MP3 player -- even the
iTunes Plus stuff.

Amazon has a brand name that's as powerful as iTunes (if less well
known in the market of downloadable music) and they've done a
fantastic job of making it ALMOST as easy to use as iTunes. If they
can capitalize on their loyal fans and make it easier to find good
music (perhaps by cross-posting MP3 reviews with their CD's reviews --
as they currently do with hardback and softback versions of books and
likewise with VHS/DVD reviews), they could really create a strong
alternative to iTunes.

And the one album and four singles I bought all sound great and I my
wife and I can both listen to them as we work out or in the car. I
couldn't be happier!

--
Nik

Kirk McElhearn (apparently) - Sep 30, 2007 7:57 am (#6 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store



On Sep 30, 2007, at 11:36 AM, Nik Friedman TeBockhorst wrote:

> And the one album and four singles I bought all sound great and I my
> wife and I can both listen to them as we work out or in the car. I
> couldn't be happier!

So far, I like it, especially because they have a good selection of
classical music, and much of it is cheap. However, I lost one album -
I paid for it, and the .amz file didn't download. I've emailed them
twice, with no answer yet; usually, Amazon is pretty quick to reply.
I'm sure they'll straighten this out, but if it were the first album
I bought, I wouldn't have bought any more...


Kirk

                       Author of: iPod & iTunes Garage
                      http://www.mcelhearn.com/ipod.html
                - - - - - -
              Read my blog: Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com
           Musings, Opinion and Miscellanea, on Macs, iPods and more




David Weintraub (apparently) - Sep 30, 2007 10:47 pm (#7 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store

The funny thing is that Apple really couldn't care if Amazon's free
MP3s beat the pants off of the iTunes store. As far as Apple is
concerned, Amazon's MP3s plays on the iPod, they're easy to load on
the iPod, so even more people will buy iPods in order to play these
songs. Cash comes in, iPods go out. Apple is happy and Amazon is
happy. After all, before Amazon sold non-copy protected MP3s, they
sold copy protected WMV music files.

But most importantly the record companies are happy because they
broke that evil nasty iTunes store monopoly! They really taught Apple
a lesson by selling those non-copy protection MP3s on Amazon for 99
cents. "Take that Apple and your iTunes store. You're not getting
away with making us sell non-copy protected music for only $1.28 per
song! Sure, we're losing 30% on each song we sell on Amazon over
iTunes, but at least we are showing you that we are not your puppet
that you can boss around and tell us what we can sell our music for!"
And we all thought the record companies were absolutely clueless.

My prediction: Apple will modify the iTunes program to allow you to
select the site where you want to buy your non-copy protected MP3s:
Apple iTunes Store, Walmart, or Amazon. As long as you put it on an
iPod, it's all the same to Apple.

=======================================
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor,
and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it."
-- Elwood P. Dowd
=======================================

David Weintraub
davidweintraubworld.net
davidweintraub.name



jeremy keens - Oct 2, 2007 3:09 am (#8 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store

Another interesting aspect is that this is an international store - which may have advantages and disadvantages.

Looking at the US iTunes store i was jealous of some of the video options. However, as we have recently upgraded our ISP to have a 12 Gb download I have been buying some music. And have found some great buys - the most recent was Steve Reichs 10 disk retrospective (1965-1995) for $16(australian). I was going to let some of my internet contacts know, and decided to look at how much the set was in the US and it was still $90 (US). Some of my other bargains (Clash on braodway, 3cds $17; Penguin Cafe Orchestra History, 4cd $17;m Phillip Glass music with changing parts, $1.99 for an album) were also not available, nor in the UK. So while there are downs to national shops, there are some definite ups. I can't explain the differential pricing myself, but plan to take advantage of it as much as possible!

Jeremy

Kirk McElhearn (apparently) - Oct 2, 2007 2:53 pm (#9 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store



On Oct 2, 2007, at 12:09 PM, jeremy keens wrote:

> Another interesting aspect is that this is an international store -
> which may have advantages and disadvantages.

It's not any more; at least not for me. For the first few days, it
would accept my credit card (I'm in France), but yesterday it told me
that I couldn't buy an album because of geographical restrictions. I
don't know if this applies to all albums though...


Kirk
               Co-author of: Mastering Mac OS X - Tiger Edition
                    http://www.mcelhearn.com/tiger.html
                - - - - - -
              Read my blog: Kirkville -- http://www.mcelhearn.com
           Musings, Opinion and Miscellanea, on Macs, iPods and more




Dave Scocca (apparently) - Oct 2, 2007 2:53 pm (#10 Total: 13)  

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--On 10/2/2007 3:09 AM -0700 jeremy keens wrote:

> Phillip Glass music with changing
> parts, $1.99 for an album) were also not available, nor in the UK.

One observation about the Amazon MP3 store--there are some truly amazing
deals on classical works where an album might have only one or two long
tracks.

I paid $0.89 each for two different recordings of Terry Riley's _In C_; a
CD of one of them was sitting on my Amazon wish list, priced at $20.

So there are some great deals there for the taking.

Also, at least one of the top-selling songs--the full eight-minute-plus
version of Don McLean's "American Pie"--is an album-only track in the
iTunes store. No wonder it's selling so well as an eighty-nine-cent single.

Dave

Kirk McElhearn (apparently) - Oct 3, 2007 3:32 am (#11 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store



On Oct 2, 2007, at 11:53 PM, Dave Scocca wrote:

> One observation about the Amazon MP3 store--there are some truly
> amazing
> deals on classical works where an album might have only one or two
> long
> tracks.
>
> I paid $0.89 each for two different recordings of Terry Riley's _In
> C_; a
> CD of one of them was sitting on my Amazon wish list, priced at $20.

If you like that, check out the Morton Feldman stuff; same deal, I
got one album for 89 cents. There's also a lot of Mahler at per-track
price (ie, $4-5 per symphony).


Kirk

Adam Engst - Oct 6, 2007 4:44 am (#12 Total: 13)  

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At 10:47 PM -0700 9/30/07, David Weintraub wrote:
>My prediction: Apple will modify the iTunes program to allow you to
>select the site where you want to buy your non-copy protected MP3s:
>Apple iTunes Store, Walmart, or Amazon. As long as you put it on an
>iPod, it's all the same to Apple.

I'd be very surprised if this would happen, at least as long as the
iTunes Store has the largest collection of music online. Apple isn't
interested in giving customers the cheapest prices, they're
interested in giving customers the best experience, and even giving
people a choice of where they buy from makes the process harder. Not
to mention the fact that as long as Apple is making money on the
iTunes Store, they have no reason to send people elsewhere.

cheers... -Adam

dr (apparently) - Oct 16, 2007 3:27 am (#13 Total: 13)  

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Re: Amazon MP3 Takes on the iTunes Store

Kirk McElhearn wrote:
>
> On Oct 2, 2007, at 11:53 PM, Dave Scocca wrote:
>
>> One observation about the Amazon MP3 store--there are some truly
>> amazing
>> deals on classical works where an album might have only one or two
>> long
>> tracks.
>>
>> I paid $0.89 each for two different recordings of Terry Riley's _In
>> C_; a
>> CD of one of them was sitting on my Amazon wish list, priced at $20.
>
> If you like that, check out the Morton Feldman stuff; same deal, I
> got one album for 89 cents. There's also a lot of Mahler at per-track
> price (ie, $4-5 per symphony).

You know this might be a part of startup hassles. (Their hassles, not yours.) These kinds of "deals" might vanish once they get some experience.

David




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