Legal issues of serving music over iTunes network

From: Frank Weeks <feweeksmac.com>

>- Since the company doesn't own the music, should they be using their
resources to share it?

IANAL, but since the music cannot (easily) be copied off the shared
mount, this does not seem like a problem.

> - What happens if an employee uploads music to the server and then later leaves the company? This presents potential logistical problems if the music needs to be removed.

Use the "Comments" field to indicate which employee the track "belongs
to" when they are first added to the server. Makes it very simple to
remove those tracks if someone leaves, just search for their name.

> - Is this considered public broadcasting of copyrighted material?

I think this would depend on the number of people able to access the
share. My feeling is not unless you are broadcasting outside you
company (or division/workgroup depending on the size of your company).
 the iTunes share is designed to cause as few problems as possible by
limiting it to a single LAN.

>Does anyone have any thoughts or legal knowledge about this? Our
company has over 100 employees and we are located in the U.S. The
music would probably be shared by 10-20 users at any one time.

10-20 locally grouped users? Would all 100 have access? At that
level I would certainly talk to a lawyer.

--
gkreme at gmail or kreme at kreme or syth at mac

I just had another thought: Is the company putting itself in a compromising position when an employee posts songs to a central iTunes server with lyrics (or music :wink: ) that might be offensive to others? (I write this while listening to Frank Zappa's "Joe's Garage.")

[I'm not a lawyer either, but it strikes me that this situation could pretty easily play into a lawsuit about creating a threatening workplace environment. -Adam]

--On Friday, August 6, 2004 6:48 AM -0700 Frank Weeks <feweeksmac.com>
wrote:

> In our office, there are several iTunes users who share their music from
> their local hard disks over the local network. The IT staff is
> considering setting up an old computer to serve music to the iTunes users
> but are concerned about putting the company in a legally compromising
> situation. Some thoughts that have been kicked around are:
>
> - Since the company doesn't own the music, should they be using their
> resources to share it?
> - What happens if an employee uploads music to the server and then later
> leaves the company? This presents potential logistical problems if the
> music needs to be removed.
> - Is this considered public broadcasting of copyrighted material?
>
> Does anyone have any thoughts or legal knowledge about this? Our company
> has over 100 employees and we are located in the U.S. The music would
> probably be shared by 10-20 users at any one time.

I would find it way too risky to the company to even suggest an official
music sharing server for my employer. A company is legally responsible for
everything on their network and proving that the music a particular user
added to the server is legal. You might get around it by requiring users
to bring the physical CD in to work, make the MP3s/AACs on the machine
itself, and then have them leave the CD at work so long as the files are on
the server -- of course if they already have an MP3 of that cd at home the
additional copy is probably illegal.

Many years ago back in college, I worked for a small science fiction book
store, we talked the owner into adding a 6 disc cd player and stereo system
and we would bring in CDs and listen to them. After that she would
occasionally receive letters from the RIAA that she needed to pay for
playing copyrighted music to shoppers (I believe their phrase was "creating
a favorable shopping experience and enhancing sales"). How the RIAA found
out about this I have no idea (it was a small town), but I guess in those
days the RIAA actually had the concept of too small to sue.

My guess would be that the RIAA would find a way of claiming your office
machine to violate copyright, even if users just listen and don't actually
copy the music.

Kevin

On 8/9/2004 13:41, "Kevin van Haaren" <kevinvanhaaren.net> wrote:

> My guess would be that the RIAA would find a way of claiming your office
> machine to violate copyright, even if users just listen and don't actually
> copy the music.

And...as I was going to toss into the thread a few days ago...
Can the company afford to be sued over this and win? Being sued is
expensive, win or lose. And winning isn't guaranteed here (in my non-lawyer
guess).

  --John

On Monday, August 9, 2004, at 04:41 PM, Frank Weeks wrote:

> I just had another thought: Is the company putting itself in a
> compromising position when an employee posts songs to a central iTunes
> server with lyrics (or music :wink: ) that might be offensive to
> others? (I write this while listening to Frank Zappa's "Joe's > Garage.")
>
> [I'm not a lawyer either, but it strikes me that this situation could
> pretty easily play into a lawsuit about creating a threatening
> workplace environment. -Adam]

Jeez, I wonder if I could sue the ex-employers that forced me to use a
PC...the horror, the horror!

Marilyn

On Aug 11, 2004, at 6:35 AM, John W. Baxter wrote:

> On 8/9/2004 13:41, "Kevin van Haaren" <kevinvanhaaren.net> wrote:
>
>> My guess would be that the RIAA would find a way of claiming your
>> office
>> machine to violate copyright, even if users just listen and don't
>> actually
>> copy the music.
>
> And...as I was going to toss into the thread a few days ago...
> Can the company afford to be sued over this and win? Being sued is
> expensive, win or lose. And winning isn't guaranteed here (in my
> non-lawyer
> guess).
>
> --John

I was in the retail hardware business for years and starting about 20
years ago, RIAA 'people' would find an employee radio playing on the
employees desk. We would get a notification of threatened suit and
fines. Having a majority of our stores in the Midwest, it seemed the
RIAA 'poeple' were savy enough to check of Saturday afternoons when
often there would be a local state university football game and our
staff would have a radio somewhere to track the game off and on (well,
maybe all the time, but that is a different thread!!). The threats were
persistent enough that we took them seriously and banned radios.

Bullies and a racket.

Craig Sutherland

Here's a related story:

<http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2004/07/23/dentist_music040723.html>

From the article:

The Society of Composers, Authors and Music Publishers of Canada, which collects royalties for musicians, has targeted dental offices in its latest campaign. The group is asking them to cough up a yearly fee if they use copyrighted music to entertain patients.

Mike

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:09:19 -0700, Craig Sutherland <suthercdmac.com> wrote:
> On Aug 11, 2004, at 6:35 AM, John W. Baxter wrote:
> > On 8/9/2004 13:41, "Kevin van Haaren" <kevinvanhaaren.net> wrote:
> I was in the retail hardware business for years and starting about 20
> years ago, RIAA 'people' would find an employee radio playing on the
> employees desk. We would get a notification of threatened suit and
> fines. Having a majority of our stores in the Midwest, it seemed the
> RIAA 'poeple' were savy enough to check of Saturday afternoons when
> often there would be a local state university football game and our
> staff would have a radio somewhere to track the game off and on (well,
> maybe all the time, but that is a different thread!!). The threats were
> persistent enough that we took them seriously and banned radios.

The RIAA has nothing to do with radios playing football games (or any
sort of news/talk radio, etc). Nor with radios that individuals
listen to (even in the workplace). If the radios are playing music
AND are audible to customers then the RIAA has a case.

> Bullies and a racket.

Well, yes, there is that.

--
 ::::== <http://www.kreme.com> ==::::
 :: Don't get saucy with me, Bernaise ::

On Aug 15, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Google Kreme wrote:

> The RIAA has nothing to do with radios playing football games (or any
> sort of news/talk radio, etc). Nor with radios that individuals
> listen to (even in the workplace). If the radios are playing music
> AND are audible to customers then the RIAA has a case.

IANAL, either, but I don't think this is accurate. Radio broadcasts
can be piped into a store location because the radio station has
already handled the issue of retransmitting the original works
publicly. I.e., since everyone in the store could use a Walkman to
listen to the same broadcast, it's okay to play the broadcast for them.

This does *not* apply to television, though -- cable shows and sports
broadcasts are both shown with a disclaimer that public display is
disallowed. That might have been the problem that tripped up the
Midwest radio broadcast -- not that it was radio, but that it was a
specific sports show that was protected.

In any case, what I can tell you is that my family has a retail store,
and folks who play HBO in their stores get notices all the time. My
dad can't get premium cable, because they won't sell that hookup (since
he could theoretically mount the TV where the customers could see it,
seeing as how that would be completely inimical to his business...).
But there's any number of hoagie shops that play commercial radio 24/7
with no repercussions.

As for how they find out -- simple. They have people whose job it is
to wander around and note infractions.

Best,
Jeff

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 06:44:25 -0700, Jeff Porten <civitanjeffporten.com> wrote:
> On Aug 15, 2004, at 8:24 AM, Google Kreme wrote:
>
> > The RIAA has nothing to do with radios playing football games (or any
> > sort of news/talk radio, etc). Nor with radios that individuals
> > listen to (even in the workplace). If the radios are playing music
> > AND are audible to customers then the RIAA has a case.
>
> IANAL, either, but I don't think this is accurate. Radio broadcasts
> can be piped into a store location because the radio station has
> already handled the issue of retransmitting the original works
> publicly. I.e., since everyone in the store could use a Walkman to
> listen to the same broadcast, it's okay to play the broadcast for them.

This is not right. You cannot pipe a radio over store speakers --
well, not if it's playing music. Why would _everyone_ pay Musak for
their "service" if they could just turn on the radio?

> But there's any number of hoagie shops that play commercial radio 24/7 with no repercussions.

RIAA just hasn't gotten to them yet, doesn't mean they won't.

--
 ::::== <http://www.kreme.com> ==::::