Touch Screen In iMac's Future?

--On August 10, 2007 8:39:14 AM -0700 Shawn King
<shawnyourmaclifeshow.com> wrote:
>
> And it's much easier using a touch screen on a phone than it is on a
> monitor. Try holding your arm in the air for a couple of hours to see how
> using Touch Screen iMac would feel. :)

As a former cadd tech, and still in cadd support, I want my drafting table
back. Nice wide expanse where I can draw with my fingers, tiltable to any
angle I desire. That's the only way a touch screen monitor is usable. As
long as I don't have to pay for it.

>That makes me wonder if Apple intends to offer touch-screen iMacs in
>the future. Apple already has an innovative touch-screen interface
>for the iPhone, they have recently applied for a number of touch-
>screen related patents

Ah yes... time once again to bring back the Newton. :) Small
enough to fit into a lady's purse or a man's jacket pocket. About
the size of a regular business envelope, yet can be thought of as
just a bigger and more capable iPhone.

On Aug 11, 2007, at 1:50 AM, dano wrote:

> At 8:39 AM -0700 8/10/07, Shawn King wrote:
>> > That makes me wonder if Apple intends to offer touch-screen
>> iMacs in
>> > the future.
>>
>> Highly unlikely, in my opinion.
>>
>>> Apple already has an innovative touch-screen interface for the
>>> iPhone,
>>
>> And it's much easier using a touch screen on a phone than it is on a
>> monitor. Try holding your arm in the air for a couple of hours to
>> see how
>> using Touch Screen iMac would feel. :)
>
> Kiosks.

Mustard. Ketchup (or catsup if you prefer). French fries. And in
these days of compulsive microbe fear, a hand sanitizer attached.

Actually, yes, of course touch screen works well in that environment--
for example the Washington State Ferries ticket vendors work nicely
(when Windows hasn't crashed, and one does see crashed machines far
too often--they usually seem to make it back to the stage in the boot
process where they want a password).

But Apple isn't going to supply the screens, just as it doesn't now.

   --John

On 2007-08-11, at 20:47, Adam C. Engst wrote:

> Jobs was asked this at the end of the presentation, and said
> essentially that no, we wouldn't be seeing it

Is the audio for the q&a section available anywhere? I've heard the
sticker excerpt and would love to hear more.

I want my laptop and my desktop to act like my iPhone. I want to reach over and drag a document into the trash. More than that, I want to highlight text with my hand and move it.

Keep some wipes next to the computer, and smudging is not a problem.

On 8/13/07 4:46 PM, "Tom Robinson" <barefootgurutomrobinson.co.nz> wrote:

> Is the audio for the q&a section available anywhere? I've heard the
> sticker excerpt and would love to hear more.

Oddly enough, Apple removed the Q&A from the streaming video of the event
that was posted on Apple's site. Unless someone else has recorded and posted
it, it's not available.
--
Shawn King

Remember those tablets and DVORAK keyboards? Interchangeable menus with the flip of a plastic page. Entry devices which didn't try to slow you down with continuous finger stretching exercises. Well they were expensive and still are compared to the keyboard foisted upon us by the manual typewriter.

I see this an a potential opening not just for Cadd users, such as myself, page layout applications and pen style entry for...artistic, touch-up, etc. purposes, but as a means to create a more flexible entry device. Those of us with dual monitors (just to hold all those menus and quickly needed items) can appreciate the concept of a key/icon/menu selection input interface that is flexible or even contextual. Greek and Mathematical entry before your very eyes without option-function e followed by shift-q, all at a cost that even the disabled might afford without a government secured loan.

I could go on, but I think the point is made; we work with keyboards as primary entry devices because the alternatives are frequently too expensive or unavailable. A touch screen technology could improve that dramatically with small screens on the horizontal. A lap top with two screens!

Larry

On Aug 13, 2007, at 1:46 PM, John Massengale wrote:

> I want my laptop and my desktop to act like my iPhone. I want to
> reach over and drag a document into the trash. More than that, I
> want to highlight text with my hand and move it.

I want that also. I don't want my keyboard to go away, and I don't
want my mouse to go away either. But I'd like to be able to
manipulate things via a touch-screen too. There are things that I do
on my Macintosh for which a touch-screen would be best. For other
things a keyboard or a mouse would be best. Having all three options
available might even cut down on repetitive stress injuries.

  A convertible iMac, which can be detached from its base to use as a
slate with a touch-screen, powered by internal batteries when it was
not on its base, might be an ideal computer for use both at home and
on the road or in the classroom.

It seems to me that Macs with integrated touch-screens would be a
logical and natural direction for computing in which to evolve. I
suspect that the ideal voice interface, such as the one in Star Trek,
isn't going to show up anytime soon. But that doesn't mean that
personal computers' interfaces have to remain static until it does.

Randy B. Singer • Mac OS X Routine Maintenance • http://
www.macattorney.com/ts.html

On 8/14/07 6:20 AM, "osolin-l" wrote
>
> I could go on, but I think the point is made; we work with keyboards as
> primary entry devices because the alternatives are frequently too expensive or
> unavailable. A touch screen technology could improve that dramatically with
> small screens on the horizontal. A lap top with two screens!
>
Now that's an idea I like. A keyboard that is touch screen. I'm not
particularly fussy about keyboards since I'm a designer and mostly use a
tablet. But I do use the keyboard extensively for shortcuts in the finder
and applications and my CAD software. I currently have the Apple wireless
keyboard and don't mind it at all. For all those who are fussy about
keyboards this is the ultimate user configurable item. It could include
hotspots to change on the fly to properties of a mouse (or tablet) and then
back to a keyboard. (layout of your choice) Of course those who prefer
tactile typing will be disappointed, but perhaps a software solution in
audio might help. Nothing is for everyone.

Adam

This is something that Apple has already applied for patents to do. Multitouch is not going to be an iPhone only item for Apple.

In the patent they showed mixing surfaces with faders for Audio apps and other widgets for video/photo apps. It really does make sense to make this for a laptop with a twist screen or if lay the monitor flat and mix and edit right on the surface (no pun intended). It has been done before at huge cost. I heard of studios retrofitting a 40 inch plasma display with a touch interface to mix on instead of a huge console. I'm not going to buy a computer any time soon.

Soundorphan <http://creativitytospare.com>

--On 8/13/2007 1:46 PM -0700 John Massengale wrote:

> I want my laptop and my desktop to act like my iPhone. I want to reach
> over and drag a document into the trash. More than that, I want to
> highlight text with my hand and move it.

The thing is, though, you probably don't want to hold your arm out like
that for more than about five minutes at a stretch.... and you don't want
to spend the day with your neck bent looking at a screen that's down where
your hands naturally fall.

The ergonomic problem of touch screens is similar to the ergonomic problem
of laptops but without offering the simple work-around of an external
keyboard or monitor.

(The laptop problem, in short: there is no way to position a standard
laptop and a normal human being such that the keyboard is in an optimal
place for typing and the screen is in an optimal place for viewing at the
same time.)

Dave

I have to say, I find this conversation the opposite of common sense. We talk about peanut butter being a problem for touch screens, as though that's not a problem for keyboards or business papers. And for millennia, we have worked on horizontal desktops (see comment below), but now that's a problem?

I'm an architect. A horizontal virtual desktop on which I could easily move things around is exactly what I would like. It would be like my drafting board, but better.

I don't know why so many seem to be against the touch screen. It's not because of unique peanut butter problems or because horizontal work surfaces are a problem.

Has everyone seen the two videos about Microsoft's Surface that I put here <http://massengale.typepad.com/venustas/2007/06/wow-part-ii.html>?

John

On 8/15/07 06:09 AM, "John Massengale" <johnmassengale.com> wrote:

> I have to say, I find this conversation the opposite of common sense. We talk
> about peanut butter being a problem for touch screens, as though that's not a
> problem for keyboards or business papers. And for millennia, we have worked on
> horizontal desktops (see comment below), but now that's a problem?
>
> I'm an architect. A horizontal virtual desktop on which I could easily move
> things around is exactly what I would like. It would be like my drafting
> board, but better.

Yes, and the problem is, you're in one of the less than a handful of markets
that would actually USE a 30" flat panel touch screen. However, architects
are not a big apple market? Why? Autodesk, and their rabid refusal to
acknowledge anything but windows. I'm actually quite surprised that they
didn't gut Maya's non-windows versions within seconds of owning the product.
Face it, without Autocad native, CAD and all the related fields are not
going to be jumping to the Mac anytime soon.

Touch screens are a neat idea, but can *Apple* sell enough large - sized
touch screens to make it worth the effort? Doubtful outside of a rather
small set of vertical markets, most of whom are locked into Windows for a
variety of reasons that Apple can't do much about. There's another issue....


...You can buy a large-sized touchscreen *now*, you're just missing the
multitouch. Wacom sells them. Cintq. I don't see them flying off the
shelves. I imagine were they in danger of being the most popular monitor
option for the Mac, Apple would be announcing multi-touch displays and
laptops post-haste.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

>Touch screens are a neat idea, but can *Apple* sell enough large - sized
>touch screens to make it worth the effort?

Of course not, but try a small-sized touch screen and it will be very
popular. Bigger than an iPhone and smaller than a laptop. Ideal
dimensions: 4" x 8" versus iPhone dimensions of 4.5" x 2.4".
--

Hudson Barton

On 8/16/07 03:34 AM, "Hudson Barton" <hhbvglimfeather.com> wrote:

>> Touch screens are a neat idea, but can *Apple* sell enough large - sized
>> touch screens to make it worth the effort?
>
> Of course not, but try a small-sized touch screen and it will be very
> popular. Bigger than an iPhone and smaller than a laptop. Ideal
> dimensions: 4" x 8" versus iPhone dimensions of 4.5" x 2.4".

Sales of the UMPC say otherwise.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

It seems to me that we are being unnecessarily complicated and either/or on
this subject.

I have friends who happily use PC tablets. Ergonomically, they use them more
or less like the pads of paper we all grew up with. Why are we saying that's
so difficult?

There is, of course, a third-party Mac tablet. My attitude when it came out
was, "The iPhone will have a touch screeen, I'll wait and see what Apple
does."

Apple has patented touch features for future laptops. And I use CAD on my
Mac. ArchiCAD is a Mac program which outputs AutoCAD (AutoBad) files. I'm
sure ArchiCAD's engineers would love to work with Apple on a touch screen
version that would work the way architects like to work. In contrast,
AutoBad is a mathematician's program that no one, no one, likes. It is the
MicroSoft of architecture, if MicroSoft was 100 times more unpopular.

John

I'm not normal, then (I knew that!) because my laptop is never used on my desk unless it's attached to a peripheral or I need reference material arranged nearby. I used to do a lot of embroidery and crochet, as have many humans across the centuries, where my gaze was naturally on my hands just above my lap.

Mary Anne in Kentucky

>>> Touch screens are a neat idea, but can *Apple* sell enough large - sized
>>> touch screens to make it worth the effort?
>>
>> Of course not, but try a small-sized touch screen and it will be very
>> popular. Bigger than an iPhone and smaller than a laptop. Ideal
>> dimensions: 4" x 8" versus iPhone dimensions of 4.5" x 2.4".
>
>Sales of the UMPC say otherwise.

I've never heard of the UMPC. It's name could hardly be worse - I have no idea how to pronounce it.

Sales of the Helios are bad too. Can we draw the conclusion from that that iPhone sales are bad?

John, obviously you don't want a tablet. Others will want Apple's tablet, and Apple's not making all those patents for nothing, regardless of what Jobs says publicly.

John

>On 8/16/07 03:34 AM, "Hudson Barton" <hhbvglimfeather.com> wrote:
>
> > try a small-sized touch screen and it will be very
> > popular. Bigger than an iPhone and smaller than a laptop. Ideal
>> dimensions: 4" x 8" versus iPhone dimensions of 4.5" x 2.4".
>
>Sales of the UMPC say otherwise.

UMPC? Is that a fair comparison? From what I can see, UMPC tablets
never arrived, or are coming from no-name companies. They look more
like research projects or marketing gimmicks than real products.
It's hardly surprising that they aren't selling (yet) if they just
don't work. Apple however obviously has the hardware and software
already figured out, or at least most of it. Making an iPhone that
is bigger and more like a a real computer does not seem to be a leap.

On 8/17/07 11:01 AM, "John Massengale" <johnmassengale.com> wrote:

>>>> Touch screens are a neat idea, but can *Apple* sell enough large - sized
>>>> touch screens to make it worth the effort?
>>>
>>> Of course not, but try a small-sized touch screen and it will be very
>>> popular. Bigger than an iPhone and smaller than a laptop. Ideal
>>> dimensions: 4" x 8" versus iPhone dimensions of 4.5" x 2.4".
>>
>> Sales of the UMPC say otherwise.
>
> I've never heard of the UMPC. It's name could hardly be worse - I have no idea
> how to pronounce it.

Microsoft's "Ultra Mobile PC". It's pretty much what you described, and
selling like rusty razor blades to hemophiliacs.

>
> Sales of the Helios are bad too. Can we draw the conclusion from that that
> iPhone sales are bad?
>
> John, obviously you don't want a tablet. Others will want Apple's tablet, and
> Apple's not making all those patents for nothing, regardless of what Jobs says
> publicly.

Apple makes patents to protect IP. Just because it's a patent doesn't mean
it's always going to become a product. Secondly, sales of tablet PCs, from
every manufacturer *combined* don't add up to, or *barely* meet Apple's
Laptop sales.

Tablets do well in certain vertical markets, but outside of those? They've
never sold well. Ever.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com