New iLife '08

> On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:27 AM, Kevin van Haaren wrote:
>
> One thing I don't see in the ExtraBits notice (or other places on
> the web)
> the new iMovie will not install on a G4 mac, it requires a G5 or Intel
> processor. You'll get a notice about it when installing. The other
> apps
> will still install.

This seems in line with Leopard, as well as with the newer core
graphics intensive applications that Apple is producing. Leopard will
not install on a G4 (so my wife's iBook is now EOL as far as system
updates go). Is this because the G4 cannot handle the programming, or
is it the graphics to make things "look cool" and to keep the
consistency of the user experience? Is there a reason a G4 cannot use
these programs?

Ray

On Aug 8, 2007, at 2:27 AM, Kevin van Haaren wrote:

> Also, if you buy in the store. Examine the box very carefully, I
> accidentally bought the 5 user Family Pack. It's in light gray
> writing on
> the lower left corner. I didn't notice and bought the wrong one (I
> bought
> a couple of other high ticket items too, so i didn't pick up on the
> higher
> price. I do remember thinking "wow, taxes sure went up.")
>
> I'm assuming the Apple store has a no return policy on open software.

I nearly did that several years ago--aided by the fact that the store
at the time had no individual packages on the shelf.

You'll just have to buy four additional Macs to use up the family
pack. ;-)

My near error last night in the online store ($30 cheaper to reach
than the nearest Apple store thanks to the ferry round trip and gas
costs) was to manage to order two iWork and no iLife, via OneClick.
I did catch the error in time, and fixed it.

   --John

On 8/8/07 09:04 AM, "Ray Kloss" <rayklossmac.com> wrote:

>> One thing I don't see in the ExtraBits notice (or other places on
>> the web)
>> the new iMovie will not install on a G4 mac, it requires a G5 or Intel
>> processor. You'll get a notice about it when installing. The other
>> apps
>> will still install.
>
> This seems in line with Leopard, as well as with the newer core
> graphics intensive applications that Apple is producing. Leopard will
> not install on a G4 (so my wife's iBook is now EOL as far as system
> updates go). Is this because the G4 cannot handle the programming, or
> is it the graphics to make things "look cool" and to keep the
> consistency of the user experience? Is there a reason a G4 cannot use
> these programs?

Well, aside from NDA issues, we don't really know what leopard will install
on in the final release, it's not done yet.

As far as the G4 issue goes, well, it's not graphics, most of those are
handled by the video card. But movie work is incredibly demanding on the
CPU, and a G4 is simply too long in the tooth to even resemble being
"enjoyable" to use.

Remember, the fastest G4 barely got to 1.7GHz or so, and is smoked by a G5.
I can also tell you that at video encoding, my 2.16GHz MacBook Pro Core Duo,
(NOT Core 2 Duo, or Xeon, or Extreme) with 2GB of ram and a pokey hard drive
can simply smoke my 2.3 GHz dual G5 Xserve with a hardware RAID, fast
drives, and 4GB of RAM. The architecture and CPUs have improved by leaps and
bounds since the G4, and it's not worth the time to support that old of an
architecture, either on the motherboard or in the CPU.

--
John C. Welch

On Aug 8, 2007, at 7:04 AM, Ray Kloss wrote:

> Leopard will
> not install on a G4

First time I've encountered that statement. That would mean I'll
escape having to buy the OS family pack one more time.

I had been somewhat expecting my Dual 533 G4 to be left behind but
not the G4 mini. Thanks.

   --John

At 07.04 -0700 2007-08-08, Ray Kloss wrote:
>This seems in line with Leopard, as well as with the newer core
>graphics intensive applications that Apple is producing. Leopard will
>not install on a G4 (so my wife's iBook is now EOL as far as system
>updates go).

As far as I know, Leopard seems to require an 800 MHz G4. So all G4s are not EOL.


--
     Johan Sölve

Regarding sending photos from the iPhone to one's web gallery:

Apple says that your .Mac email account must be set up on your iPhone Apple doesn't seem to say--but my iPhone demonstrates--that the account must also be turned on in settings. When I turn the account on, the needed menu item appears; when I turn it off the item vanishes. (As it happens, I don't want the .mac mail active on the iPhone, as I receive mailing lists--including this one--in the account via an alias, and I'd rather not receive them on the iPhone. And since I receive them via a .mac alias, I can't set up to reply to them--I think.

--John

On Aug 8, 2007, at 7:04, Ray Kloss wrote:
> This seems in line with Leopard, as well as with the newer core
> graphics intensive applications that Apple is producing. Leopard will
> not install on a G4 (so my wife's iBook is now EOL as far as system
> updates go).

Considering that Apple was selling G4-based "pro" laptops as recently
as 15 months back, I have to say that I think this G5 or higher
requirement on new software--yet alone consumer software and the OS
itself--is a rather obnoxious move by Apple. Given AppleCare, these
machines aren't even close to being out of warranty yet! I understand
that they're pushing the envelope quite a bit, but it seems like
they've historically done a much better job of pushing the envelope
without tearing through it.

This trend also has me a bit worried about the stay-current life span
of my quad-core 2.6 GHz Mac Pro, which replaced my Sawtooth G4
(upgraded with a bigger/faster HD and a much faster G4) just a few
months ago.


Regards,
Bob

--On August 8, 2007 2:27:27 AM -0700 Kevin van Haaren <kevinvanhaaren.net>
wrote:

> One thing I don't see in the ExtraBits notice (or other places on the web)
> the new iMovie will not install on a G4 mac, it requires a G5 or Intel
> processor. You'll get a notice about it when installing. The other apps
> will still install.
>
> Hopefully a hack comes out to fix this.

Apple released the old iMovie HD 6 from iLife '06, I assume to address this
issue. You can download and install it from here:

<http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/imovieHD6.html>

The page says you have to have iLife '08 installed for this to install. I
didn't test this as I do have iLife '08 installed. It installs to a folder
in the applications folder named iMovie Previous Versions. So you can
install it even if iMovie '08 does install for you, it won't overwrite the
current version.

Kevin

On 10-Aug-2007, at 03:43, johnbaxterlistsmac.com wrote:
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 7:04 AM, Ray Kloss wrote:
>
>> Leopard will
>> not install on a G4
>
> First time I've encountered that statement. That would mean I'll
> escape having to buy the OS family pack one more time.

John Baxter is 100% completely unquestioningly flat-out wrong.

Leopard will install just fine on a G4.

> I had been somewhat expecting my Dual 533 G4 to be left behind but
> not the G4 mini. Thanks.

Both of these should be fine.

I forget what the cutoff is, exactly, but my G4 dual 500 is supported.

On 10-Aug-2007, at 03:59, Kevin van Haaren wrote:
> The page says you have to have iLife '08 installed for this to
> install. I
> didn't test this as I do have iLife '08 installed. It installs to
> a folder
> in the applications folder named iMovie Previous Versions. So you can
> install it even if iMovie '08 does install for you, it won't
> overwrite the
> current version.

Also, be aware that iMovie 7 is a completely new application with a
completely new file format. You will have to convert any old iMovie
6 projects, and this can take a LONG time. In fact, I have one
project of about 27GB in size that has been 'converting' all night
long. It's currently on "Generating Thumbnails" and I am starting to
think the stupid thing crashed. Would be annoying if so, because the
step before this one took at least 3 hours (Mac Pro quad core).

The CPU usage in Activity Monitor keeps changing though... that's a
good sign, right?

On Aug 10, 2007, at 10:39 AM, Google Kreme wrote:

> Also, be aware that iMovie 7 is a completely new application with a
> completely new file format. You will have to convert any old iMovie
> 6 projects, and this can take a LONG time. In fact, I have one
> project of about 27GB in size that has been 'converting' all night
> long. It's currently on "Generating Thumbnails" and I am starting to
> think the stupid thing crashed. Would be annoying if so, because the
> step before this one took at least 3 hours (Mac Pro quad core).
>
> The CPU usage in Activity Monitor keeps changing though... that's a
> good sign, right?

Hmmm, not sure I'd ever want to 'convert' an iMovie HD project to
iMovie '08, since a lot of special transitions and markers would be
lost or screwed up someway. Jim Heid seems to indicate that they are
two different beasts and it is possible to use iMovie '08 for rapid/
proof of concept' work, then move to iMovie HD for more technical/
tuning steps. I don't think it's designed to go the other way,
though, at least for projects that used any of the animations or
chapter markers. Those are no longer supported, and neither is the
plug-in architecture, so all the 3rd party plug-ins used would be/are
now useless in iMovie '08.

I'm not really all that enamored with iMovie '08, as I've been
working with it this week. It seems like it's moving toward a photo-
workflow paradigm. I like iPhoto '08 better. Still not sure how it
may or may not have any impact on my photo workflow that is 99% RAW
photography that goes through iView Multi-Media Pro to Capture One. I
store NO original photos in iPhoto's Library; they're all aliases. I
point iPhoto to the archived photos that I deem worthy to save from
Capture One. So my iPhoto 08 Library points to over 40,000 photos.
I'm thrilled to now have that simplified into under 600 events, so
that is nice. However, I still don't think it can be my tool for
importing/sorting originals, even though the idea of 'hiding' is
great. iWeb sucks less. It still sucks, though. Wish IT had been the
app they replaced. (At some point, I may switch to an Aperture/iPhoto
workflow, if and when I think it would do as well at organizing and
sorting through thousands of off-site images as iView does currently;
assuming Aperture ever becomes as good at RAW editing as Capture One.)

Stepping back from the trees to get a feel for the forest, and
noticing Apple's swelling market share which will, in a short time,
mean that most users will have only had a Windows experience prior to
the Mac, if they had any computer experience at all, and realizing
that the younger generation coming up is using these tools to share
on the web more than any other venue, most of what is going on makes
sense to me. I expect the primary growth in video cameras will be in
direct to flash/disc/drive products and not tape. Apple removing the
'Rolls' from iPhoto and calling them 'Events', along with what they
did in iMovie '08 to turn it into primarily a way to organize and
sort video clips, all indicates to me that Apple is expecting/
anticipating that the digital hub/PC is destined to be a conduit to
get images/sound/motion from one place to another simply, quickly,
and elegantly.

Jeffrey

On Aug 10, 2007, at 8:39 AM, Google Kreme wrote:

> On 10-Aug-2007, at 03:43, johnbaxterlistsmac.com wrote:
>> On Aug 8, 2007, at 7:04 AM, Ray Kloss wrote:
>>
>>> Leopard will
>>> not install on a G4
>>
>> First time I've encountered that statement. That would mean I'll
>> escape having to buy the OS family pack one more time.
>
> John Baxter is 100% completely unquestioningly flat-out wrong.

John Baxter did not make the claim, he quoted it (as your quote
fortunately makes clear). And notice I said "That would mean" rather
than "That will mean". There is a difference, which is why I said
would.

   --John

johnbaxterlistsmac.com wrote:
>
> On Aug 8, 2007, at 7:04 AM, Ray Kloss wrote:
>
>> Leopard will
>> not install on a G4
>
> First time I've encountered that statement.

I'm not under an NDA. And I know fairly current release candidates install on a G4 PowerBook.

Is there a statement somewhere that says G4's are no longer supported. That would be odd that they kill off machines that were sold less than 2 years ago?

David Ross

Actually, this is my mistake (funny how a discussion can get started).

My wife's iBook is a G3, and neither iLife 06 or later or Leopard
will install in it.

But go ahead with the discussion regardless.


Ray