Jogging with your iPod in a Thunderstorm

not really that shocking - if you grew up where thunderstorms are
common.

We were told not to use transistor radios with earphone (note
singular) during thunderstorm and not to stand on hills, under trees,
etc. - summer thunderstorms are common in Calgary (this year is a
very odd exception).

On Jul 14, 2007, at 10:23 PM, Google Kreme wrote:

> If you're jogging during a thunderstorm anyway, don't you kinda
> deserve what you get?

Yes.

I mentioned in another venue that I'm unlikely to be jogging past
trees in thunderstorms anyhow. And iPods (or walkmen [walkmans?] for
that matter) didn't exist when I was last at the top of Mt Evans in
Colorado (highest auto road in the US, and sea-level tuned 1950s cars
REALLY didn't like the climb--I suspect the modern computerized
systems do a lot better).

Even on a day with no threat of actual lightning strikes, one can
draw a nice 1 to 2 inch spark by pointing at the rock you're standing
near (and leaning on the rock can do marvelous things to long hair).
I think I'll leave my iPod/iPhone in the car in the unlikely event I
ever go back--I can do without burns in the ear canals.

I do expect to see an addition to the warnings that come with the
iPhone--the list of things not to do to it is already quite long and
rather amusing--do I really need to be warned not to crush it?

   --John

On 15/07/2007 5:23 PM, "Mary Arthur" <maryarthurmac.com> spake thus:

> We were told not to use transistor radios with earphone (note
> singular) during thunderstorm and not to stand on hills, under trees,

Of course, standing *near* a tree can be useful, because the lightning will
hit the tree rather than you. You don't want to be the tallest object around
in a thunderstorm, hence the advice I've heard to lie on the ground if
you're caught out in the open. The trick is to not stand too close to the
tree, otherwise the lightning may arc from the tree to you. I've been told
that you should stand about as far away as the tree is tall, and you should
be safe on both counts.

However, even if you're standing a safe distance from the tree you still
have the electrical discharge expanding outwards through the ground to
contend with. Because the voltage varies proportionally with distance from
the strike target, the trick is to stand either facing towards or away from
the tree. That way both feet will be on the same voltage "contour" and you
won't be affected. If you stand a different angle, your feet will experience
a voltage differential, and current will flow through you :( This is why
four-legged animals do really badly in lightning strikes. I assume that
sitting on the ground would be equally as bad.

I'm not sure how this works if you're in a forest :)

--
Nigel Stanger, Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND.
http://xri.net/=nigel.stanger

On 7/16/07 11:34 AM, "johnbaxterlistsmac.com" <johnbaxterlistsmac.com>
wrote:

> I do expect to see an addition to the warnings that come with the
> iPhone--the list of things not to do to it is already quite long and
> rather amusing--do I really need to be warned not to crush it?

Do Not Eat iPod Shuffle.

The warning they SHOULD have:

"If you are a nincompoop, do not use this, or any other Apple product. If
you are not sure you are a nincompoop, assume you are."

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

It is one of the latest subjects on the urban legend Web site, snopes.com.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/ipod.asp

____________________
Ryoichi "Roy" Morita
Coarsegold, CA
rjmoritarjmorita.com
http://www.rjmorita.com

The New England Journal of Medicine was sober and careful with the facts. There was no charge for downloading the article, for once.

Augh! Talk about misleading headlines. - Jogging (or any outdoors activity) is a bad idea during a thunderstorm, regardless of the electronics you bring along. - The headline suggests the iPod offers a unique danger, when in fact any wiring around your body can have the same effect. - The article doesn't make it clear if the headphones contributed to the victim's hearing loss [1],"

As nobody was in place with instrumentation or data recording the best guess was the sound pressure from the lightning bursting the eardrums. There was pressure damage but not burn damage inside the head of the victim. Interesting that dryish skin does not conduct lightning well so it flashes over to ground. Wires or other metal objects change the story.

George

Nigel Stanger wrote:

> You don't want to be the tallest object around
> in a thunderstorm, hence the advice I've heard to lie on the ground if
> you're caught out in the open.

Lying down is a bad idea, for precisely the reason you mention:

> However, even if you're standing a safe distance from the tree you
still
> have the electrical discharge expanding outwards through the ground to
> contend with.

If you're lying down, you're bridging a sizable voltage differential.
You should minimise your contact area. Instead of lying down, crouch
down. Make sure your feet are close together.

Harro de Jong

At 9:34 AM -0700 7/16/07, Nigel Stanger wrote:
>I've been told
>that you should stand about as far away as the tree is tall, and you should
>be safe on both counts.

        The last report of lightning/tree injuries I recall from a few
years back was of a group of people taking severe wood shrapnel damage as
the tree they were near exploded when struck by lightning. It isn't just
the electrical effects that can be dangerous.


--
* Johann Beda - contact link: <http://xri.net/=j-beda> *
* Johann's MostlyMac Computer Consulting - <http://mmcc.beda.ca/> *

At 06:34 07/16/07 -0700, Nigel Stanger wrote:
>hence the advice I've heard to lie on the ground if you're caught out in
>the open

Harro de Jong already pointed out that this advice is outdated. It was
common 40 years ago, but as Harro mentioned, the main danger is ground
currents. The Snopes article cited also gets this right.

The advice to stay in a car is good, but most people don't understand the
reason. You'll hear that the rubber tires make good insulators -- as though
a lightning strike which had already traveled a mile through the air is
going to be intimidated by the foot of air below the car. The safety
derives from the car body acting as a Faraday cage, but unfortunately
explaining a Faraday cage to anyone who hasn't taken Physics 101 is
generally difficult.

Edward
--
Art works by Melynda Reid: http://paleo.org

An annoyance with this whole topic is that every lightning strike is
different.

Being in a car or airplane is generally good. But the fuel may
explode, or--if moving or in flight--control may be lost.

Being struck yourself or having something you are carrying struck is
generally bad. But, the museum at the Army's Springfield Armory (is
that still open) had, when I visited in the late 1950s a display of a
civil war musket with bayonet. The piece was being carried by a
sentinel when the tip of the bayonet was struck. The bayonet wound
up with a nice curve (where the sentinel's neck fit. The sentinel
was knocked out--upon waking up he seemed fine except for a headache.

There are best practices in the small boat industry for lightning
protection (which vary of course with type of construction). I'm
aware of a wooden boat which was struck at the top of the mast (most
likely place, of course) and sustained no obvious damage despite not
being protected according to anyone's ideas as to best practices.
I'm aware of another wooden boat--fully protected according to best
practices--which was struck at the top of the mast and had virtually
all fasteners blown out of the hull (water pressure kept the planking
in place long enough for serious effort which saved the boat) and all
electronics on board fried.

So there are right and wrong things to do, but the actual outcome has
a large degree of randomness. The best one can do is improve the
odds (or move to a planet without electrical storms, which presents
other problems).

   --John

On 20/07/2007 2:45 AM, "Edward Reid" <edwardpaleo.org> spake thus:

> The safety
> derives from the car body acting as a Faraday cage, but unfortunately
> explaining a Faraday cage to anyone who hasn't taken Physics 101 is
> generally difficult.

You could tell people it's analogous to standing inside a building in a
downpour. Just like the rain is deflected by the building and runs down the
sides, keeping you dry, the electricity is deflected by the metal body of
the car and "runs down" the sides, keeping you alive :) The important part,
of course, is the metal, which surrounds you without touching you. It'll be
interesting to see whether lightning deaths in cars increase as vehicles
move to a greater proportion of non-metallic construction. Hmm... is carbon
fibre conductive (or can it be made so)?

--
Nigel Stanger, Dunedin, NEW ZEALAND.
http://xri.net/=nigel.stanger

Quoting Edward Reid <edwardpaleo.org>:

> The advice to stay in a car is good, but most people don't understand the
> reason. The safety
> derives from the car body acting as a Faraday cage, but unfortunately
> explaining a Faraday cage to anyone who hasn't taken Physics 101 is
> generally difficult.

Except of course the various antennas that are outside the cage and
provide a current path into the cage. If you have a retractable
antenna, put it down. Not a good idea to fiddle with the car radio
during a storm. Cell phones too, especially if attached to an external
antenna.

Also, faraday cages require a conductor path completely around the
occupant (metal cars are only partial faraday cages because of the
windows.) Being in a fabric topped convertable isn't safe. Saturn's
have plastic door panels (at least my old one did) the doors are
attached to a steel frame, so probably not as safe as all-metal cars.
Same for Corvettes with fiberglass bodies.

<http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_pls/vehicle_strike.html>

John W Baxter wrote:
> An annoyance with this whole topic is that every lightning strike is
> different. ....
>
> So there are right and wrong things to do, but the actual outcome has
> a large degree of randomness. The best one can do is improve the
> odds (or move to a planet without electrical storms, which presents
> other problems).

There is a direct correlation between the temperature and the number of
lightning strikes. Lowering the temperature of Planet Earth would
reduce the frequency of lightning storms & strikes...

George

I've been reading this story, the comments here and elsewhere, all with a bit of disbelief. I mean I grew up where we had thunderstorms all the time. We also had a saying "That person doesn't have enough sense to come in out of the rain." Maybe it applies.

The only lightning strikes we'd get were the occasional farmer who was trying to beat the rain when harvesting or similar or golfers. The farmer would could understand, there was real money on the table. The golfers, well we figured they fit the above saying.

How do folks grow up and not learn to come in out of the rain?

The iPod isn't the issue. The lump between the ear buds is.

David Ross

On Jul 20, 2007, at 5:08 AM, George Wade wrote:

> There is a direct correlation between the temperature and the number of
> lightning strikes. Lowering the temperature of Planet Earth would
> reduce the frequency of lightning storms & strikes...

One more reason to reduce C02 in the atmosphere and reverse Global
Warming.

Too bad Al Gore didn't include some footage of lightning strikes.
Very satisfying visuals and might move some from complacency!

Richard

The National Weather Service has some neat pages on lightning saftey.

<http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/index.htm> (I occasionally get
missing page notices, but a refresh brings them up)

The photos and survivor stories are particularly interesting (getting
hit by lightning can cause a lot of problems from complete paralysis,
memory loss, migranes and seizures.)

they also have a cool map of where lighting has struck in the last 5 years:
<http://www.lightningsafety.noaa.gov/lightning_map.htm>

NASA also has a map from a couple of their satellites mapping lighting
strikes across the earth:

<http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast05dec_1.htm>


BTW, saying "just don't go out in thunderstorms" or "if you go running
in a thunderstorm you get what you deserved" is a bit disingenuous.
Thunderstorms can crop up very quickly (from personal experience in
both Colorado and Florida I've seen storms show up in minutes), and if
you're on a long run it may have started out clear when you left.
Also there are types of lighting from the very tops of a thunderstorm
that can strike 5-10 miles in front of, or behind, the storm. So even
if you think the storm has passed you could still get struck.

On Jul 20, 2007, at 12:46 PM, David Ross wrote:

> How do folks grow up and not learn to come in out of the rain?

Around here (western Washington) we can't come in out of the rain--
nothing would get done. We can, however, usually tell the difference
between mere rain and electrical storms (with or without rain).

   --John (Port Ludlow, WA [USA])

Yet another thing to avoid around thunderstorms:

<http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003803242_diver24.html>

In which a scuba diver dies when his tank is struck as he surfaces.
(Thunderstorm warnings were posted.)


[He was probably listening to his iPod at the same time! :-) -Adam]


--John

johnbaxterlistsmac.com wrote:
>
> On Jul 20, 2007, at 12:46 PM, David Ross wrote:
>
>> How do folks grow up and not learn to come in out of the rain?
>
> Around here (western Washington) we can't come in out of the rain--
> nothing would get done. We can, however, usually tell the difference
> between mere rain and electrical storms (with or without rain).
>
It amazes me the number of folks who can't smell rain on the way. And if you can smell it, it is usually time to go in as what you're smelling in many cases is evidence of lightning. :)

Yes, working in a steady not too hard rain can be enjoyable or miserable depending. But with lightning, well golfers seem to be a class that cares more about finishing the current 9 than living a long and healthy life. :)