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iPhone confusion at AT&T

[ngpappas]ngpappas (apparently) - 07:21am Jun 29, 2007 PST
via email

I intend to get an iPhone very soon. After the January announcement,
I left Sprint and bought a RAZR on a pre-paid plan from AT&T. I
figured this would allow me to test coverage of their network and
make it easier to migrate to the iPhone since I would already be an
AT&T customer.

The basic network coverage is acceptable for me. Dealing with AT&T is
another matter.

When I got he RAZR it took an hour and a lot of hassle to get my
phone number moved from Sprint to AT&T. It turns out there is only
one department in AT&T that knows the process, and it is unusual.
First I had to open an AT&T account and get assigned a new phone
number. Once that was done, I could move the Sprint number to that
new account. People in sales offices didn't understand this process.

A couple of weeks ago, I started contacting AT&T to figure out what
process I would go to to move from a pre-paid plan to a contract for
my iPhone while retaining my phone number. A person at one of their
800 numbers told me that sales people in the AT&T stores don't like
to migrate numbers, but that I should insist upon doing it.

Last week I dropped by an Apple store and was told that I could buy
my phone from the Apple store, but I could not buy the service there.
I would have to buy it from AT&T. So, I could make one stop at AT&T
for the phone and the service or two stops. Curious.

Today, I walked into an AT&T store and told the sales person what I
would want to do on Friday. He told me it was impossible since I
would need a new account with a new phone number, and there would be
no way too move my phone number. There wasn't a manager around, and I
had to leave for other business. While on the road, I called an AT&T
800 number to learn more. The nice, but untrained and not too bright
person told me that it was impossible to move a number from my
current AT&T phone to an iPhone. I pointed out that there were
Federal mandates guaranteeing portability, and it seemed stupid that
I would be able to move from AT&T to another carrier and then back to
AT&T - keeping my number through both steps, but I could not keep my
number moving within AT&T. At this point I was handed off to a
manager. He actually did some research, and for what it is worth, I
offer it to others. No idea how accurate it is.

First, I was told to convert from my pre-paid plan to an AT&T
contract before getting the iPhone. Then, he said he was looking at
some screen shots of the iTunes-based activation process, and that in
that process there are places where it asks you if you have and AT&T
contract and at that point you can slide the contract over to the
phone.

So, back to the AT&T store where I converted to a contract. In the
process, I learned that the staff had not yet received any training
on the iPhone or its service. They were supposed to get three hours
of training before the phone goes on sale, but as of 2:00 p.m. today
(Wednesday) it had not happened and they didn't know when it was
supposed to happen.

Regarding the activation process, I was told to go through it very
slowly. To read and understand all the questions before answering.
There was a strong sense that you could go down a path that would not
be easy to extricate yourself from.

I am inferring from all this that the Activation Process may be
intelligent enough to save us all from poorly trained sales staff. I
certainly hope so.

Has anybody else learned anything useful?
--
Nick Pappas
Lizzy's Ice Cream LLC
http://www.lizzysicecream.com


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sashathor (apparently) - Jul 2, 2007 1:40 pm (#1 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

  Apple is making a serious, serrious error in going w/ AT&T for the
iPhone. They will lose potential customers, because dealing wiuth AT&T
(ex-SBC, ex- ?) is an hours-long pain. I know; I have paid the price in
money and time. Recorded menus, hand-offs, long delays -- "customer
service" with them is an oxymoron. I've just given up on them and begun
the change to Charter (northern Michigan) and have been told that the
simple, Federally mandated number portability will be fought by AT&T.
Maybe rthe thing for any of us who encounter such arrogance and greed
is to start flooding your state's Attorney General's office w/
complaints (be sure to include specifics).

johnbaxterlists (apparently) - Jul 2, 2007 1:40 pm (#2 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T



On Jun 29, 2007, at 7:21 AM, Nick Pappas wrote:

> I am inferring from all this that the Activation Process may be
> intelligent enough to save us all from poorly trained sales staff. I
> certainly hope so.

My belief is that the activation-through-iTunes process was designed
for two and a half main reasons:
    1. To reduce in-store time-per-transaction during the initial rush
    2. To avoid having to train Apple store staff in ATT activation
    2.5 To improve the experience of activating a phone bought
online and shipped, compared with normal web page activation.

(iTunes is essentially a highly specialized web browser in its store
interactions; it should be able to make the process work better there
than in Safari, IE6, IE7, Firefox on both platforms, Opera on both
platforms, Camino, OmniWeb ... [you get the idea]. Of course, if
it's wrong in iTunes, it's wrong for everyone--or everyone with a
particular circumstance, such as Nick's)

   --John


dr (apparently) - Jul 2, 2007 1:52 pm (#3 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

Hugh Munro wrote:
> Apple is making a serious, serrious error in going w/ AT&T for the
> iPhone. They will lose potential customers, because dealing wiuth AT&T
> (ex-SBC, ex- ?) is an hours-long pain. I know; I have paid the price in
> money and time. Recorded menus, hand-offs, long delays -- "customer
> service" with them is an oxymoron. I've just given up on them and begun
> the change to Charter (northern Michigan) and have been told that the
> simple, Federally mandated number portability will be fought by AT&T.
> Maybe rthe thing for any of us who encounter such arrogance and greed
> is to start flooding your state's Attorney General's office w/
> complaints (be sure to include specifics).

Sounds just like my dealings with Sprint. And what others have told me about Verizon. And on and on and on. Plus remember that most of the AT&T wireless company is really Cingular with a new name.

Sorry but to me this is just another case of being shocked that there's gambling in Rick's Cafe.

David Ross

John C. Welch (apparently) - Jul 3, 2007 6:40 am (#4 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

I have to say that with an activation that I *knew* would suck, (porting a
sprint number that's a Mass. number to an AT&T phone bought in Missouri), I
have nothing but love for AT&T's support, especially the guy at the AT&T
store near my house who sat down, and beat that activation mercilessly until
I got the number I wanted. Was it instantaneous? No, took just over 24
hours. But for a really horrid activation scenario, AT&T handled politely,
professionally, and with great enthusiasm, and right now, I'm all a-twitter
over how happy I am with them.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com



david shayer (apparently) - Jul 3, 2007 6:40 am (#5 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

At 1:40 PM -0700 7/2/07, johnbaxterlistsmac.com wrote:
>My belief is that the activation-through-iTunes process was designed
>for two and a half main reasons:
> 1. To reduce in-store time-per-transaction during the initial rush
> 2. To avoid having to train Apple store staff in ATT activation
> 2.5 To improve the experience of activating a phone bought
>online and shipped, compared with normal web page activation.


You forgot what may be the main reason: To preserve the customer's out-of-box experience.

When you buy a brand new Apple product, you notice they take great care to make the out-of-box experience beautiful, aesthetic, and pleasant. Having some goon from AT&T rip your box open to stick a SIM card in your phone, then throw all the pieces in a bag and rush you out the door completely destroys that experience.

--
David

Conrad Hirano (apparently) - Jul 3, 2007 6:40 am (#6 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

On Jul 2, 2007, at 1:40 PM, Hugh Munro wrote:

> Apple is making a serious, serious error in going w/ AT&T for the
> iPhone. They will lose potential customers, because dealing with AT&T
> (ex-SBC, ex- ?) is an hours-long pain. I know; I have paid the
> price in
> money and time. Recorded menus, hand-offs, long delays -- "customer
> service" with them is an oxymoron.

Over the years, I've been with pre-merger AT&T Wireless, post-merger
Cingular, and T-Mobile, and I haven't noticed any significant
difference in quality of the service. There's nothing to keep me
with any one company. I end up choosing a carrier based on who
happens to be offering the best deal on a new phone and plans when
I'm looking. (The only company I avoid is Verizon because I don't
care for its practice of crippling phones to force users to use and
pay for its other services.)

I suspect I'm not atypical. There's very little to no loyalty in the
cell phone market. Service is generally adequate but not great. The
complaints you have apply to all of the cell phone companies, and
regardless of which company Apple ended up teaming up with, someone
would claim that it was a serious error.

johnbaxterlists (apparently) - Jul 3, 2007 6:53 am (#7 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

On Jul 2, 2007, at 1:40 PM, Hugh Munro wrote:
> Apple is making a serious, serrious error in going w/ AT&T for the
> iPhone.

There are horror stories about ALL the wireless phone providers. T-
Mobile seems to be better than most--on the other hand, T-Mobile's
network is very "thin" in many places (I couldn't use it even with
the new Hotspot at Home phones coming out this week, since service
isn't available in many places I routinely go). (And I did look at
Hotspot at Home as an iPhone alternative--it's rather compelling.)

Likewise, there are stories of contentment with ATT service, along
with such stories about all the other carriers.

As to the store people, I was very pleased with the people in the
"nearby" ATT store, Silverdale, WA. (Selling was slow there as it
was with many of the stores--partly process and partly that ATT's
computer network was overwhelmed--including repeatedly logging off
one of the store's management folks.) For me, ATT was the only
rational store, as all Apple stores are a long sea voyage--OK a short
ferry ride--away. More generally, Apple stores seem to have been the
place to buy.

Also, for my particular situation, ATT's network now provides much
better coverage where I am than any of the others. That's a major
change from 26 months ago, when I cancelled my Cingular account (AT&T
until the merger) because signal strength had deteriorated to
unusable at home. Verizon has been 2 bars--sometimes 3--here at my
desk recently--ATT is 5 bars, sometimes only 4.

 From the above, you might think I'm pleased with the choice of ATT
given Apple wanting an exclusive (and also needing two models if they
brought in Verizon and other CDMA carriers in addition). You would
be right.

   --John


David Weintraub (apparently) - Jul 3, 2007 6:53 am (#8 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

On Jul 2, 2007, at 4:40 PM, Hugh Munro wrote:
> Apple is making a serious, serrious error in going w/ AT&T for the
> iPhone.

Let's look at Apple's choices:

* Sprint: Even more messed up than AT&T. They just killed their WiMax
upgrade and have terrible service issues.
* T-Mobile: I think their data network is slower than AT&Ts and their
coverage is much less.
* Verizon: As top dog, they would want a lot of say on how any
"iPhone" would be structured. Allow customers to browse via WiFi and
have them avoid the Verizon network? Not in your life! This is a
company that broke the BlueTooth capability on their phones in order
to prevent users from downloading photos and tunes directly to their
computer. Not when they can make 90 cents per picture transfer!
Besides, Verizon isn't GSM, and that is important for the rest of the
world.

So, here is AT&T which is officially the largest cellphone provider
in America, but is quickly running out of steam. They are desperate
to look for something to help hold their customers and help them get
new ones, and here comes Apple with the iPhone! For AT&T, Apple can
do almost whatever they want and it would be okay with them if it
helps them retain their current customers and maybe even grow a bit.
They gave Apple complete reign (well, almost. I bet the in ability to
use your iTunes songs as ringtones was AT&T's idea).

It was a gamble for Apple to go with AT&T. AT&T has a bad service
reputation, but unlike Verizon, would allow Apple almost complete
control of what the iPhone would be like, how it would be offered,
and its price.

--
David Weintraub
davidweintraubworld.net
davidweintraub.name



Randy B. Singer (apparently) - Jul 3, 2007 6:53 am (#9 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T



On Jul 2, 2007, at 1:40 PM, Hugh Munro wrote:

> Apple is making a serious, serrious error in going w/ AT&T for the
> iPhone. They will lose potential customers, because dealing wiuth
> AT&T
> (ex-SBC, ex- ?) is an hours-long pain. I know; I have paid the
> price in
> money and time.

I don't like AT&T, but I've had even more nasty dealings with
Sprint. The bottom line is that Apple had to pick the devil that
they wanted to dance with (one of the cellular providers). Any
choice would have had its drawbacks.

> have been told that the
> simple, Federally mandated number portability will be fought by AT&T.
> Maybe rthe thing for any of us who encounter such arrogance and greed
> is to start flooding your state's Attorney General's office w/
> complaints (be sure to include specifics).

You can do that, but much more effective would be to contact your
state's public utilities commission. They can deal with a public
utility more effectively through an administrative process, cutting
through the red tape and huge amount of time that would be required
in a criminal action. It's what they are there for, unlike your
state's attorney general, who has lots of other things on his/her
plate, and who is much more interested in a political agenda.

___________________________________________
Randy B. Singer
Co-author of The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th, and 6th editions)

Macintosh OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html
___________________________________________




John C. Welch (apparently) - Jul 4, 2007 3:33 am (#10 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

On 7/3/07 08:40 AM, "Conrad Hirano" <tidbitshirano.fastmail.fm> wrote:

> I suspect I'm not atypical. There's very little to no loyalty in the
> cell phone market. Service is generally adequate but not great. The
> complaints you have apply to all of the cell phone companies, and
> regardless of which company Apple ended up teaming up with, someone
> would claim that it was a serious error.

Honestly, the only reason I was a Sprint customer for almost ten years was
because there wasn't a compelling reason to switch. The iPhone overcame that
laziness.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com



Brad Ackerman (apparently) - Jul 4, 2007 3:38 am (#11 Total: 11)  

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Re: iPhone confusion at AT&T

On Jul 3, 2007, at 09:53 , David Weintraub wrote:

* Sprint: Even more messed up than AT&T. They just killed their WiMax
upgrade and have terrible service issues.

Eek... so much for Sprint, then. WiMax would have been nice.

* T-Mobile: I think their data network is slower than AT&Ts and their
coverage is much less.

The 2.5G should be comparable. AT&T has 3G 850/1900 according to gsmworld.com, but the iPhone doesn't do any 3G, so that's irrelevant to the current version. T-Mobile will have 3G 1700 according to Engadget, for which there are currently no phones available.

So that brings the current frequency band choices for GSM and UMTS to: 450, 850, 900, 1700, 1800, 1900, 2100. The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many to choose from. (Most of the world is on UMTS 2100 for their 3G.)

* Verizon: As top dog, they would want a lot of say on how any
"iPhone" would be structured. [...]  Besides, Verizon isn't GSM, and that is important for the rest of the
world.

Indeed -- having a completely different RF deck would be decidedly nonoptimal, even if Verizon didn't aggressively despise their customers.

Not that AT&T's much better -- they had Nokia make a crippled E61 to sell as the E62 (no 802.11, although it does have VoIP).

Maybe Apple can do it right with iPhone 2.0: UMTS with HSPUA (latest 3G air interface), an unlocked phone, and AT&T and T-Mobile can fight it out to convince people to take their SIM cards. Nokia's been selling unlocked phones in the US, but they have a tiny retail presence; with > 150 stores in the US, online, and all the free publicity they could possibly want, Apple can do just fine by itself.

-- 
Brad Ackerman






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