Daylight Saving Time problems

At 5:31 PM +0200 1/31/07, Peter Schoenrank wrote:
>Although 10.4.5 updates the zoneinfo for the USA, it does not reflect
>the fact that Canadian provinces (except for Saskatchewan, which
>doesn't do DST) have decided to follow the USA's lead.
>
><http://db.tidbits.com/article/8832>
>
>Ian Ward Comfort's unofficial installer will fix 10.3 for us Canucks,
>but it is limited to 10.3: it won't install on 10.4. I have e-mailed
>Mr. Comfort asking if he would consider removing the 10.4 restriction.
>I sure hope he says yes.
>
>Shame on Apple.

"Shame on Apple"!?

I think that that is a little much. There is still something like a
month to fix this, while still giving over a week for people to get
the update. If we get to March without a Canada fix, I'd agree. But
if 10.4.9 is released in early- or mid-February (which from what I am
reading seems likely enough), what's the problem?

This is actually the rare issue for which we know EXACTLY when it
becomes a problem. How long before that date does Apple have an
obligation to post a fix? A week? A month? When we've passed that
point, shame on Apple. Until then, let them work without shaming.

--

=Alex Hoffman
Leadership Policy & Politics
Teachers College, Columbia University

Peter Schoenrank wrote:
> Although 10.4.5 updates the zoneinfo for the USA, it does not reflect
> the fact that Canadian provinces (except for Saskatchewan, which
> doesn't do DST) have decided to follow the USA's lead.
>
> <http://db.tidbits.com/article/8832>
>
> Ian Ward Comfort's unofficial installer will fix 10.3 for us Canucks,
> but it is limited to 10.3: it won't install on 10.4. I have e-mailed
> Mr. Comfort asking if he would consider removing the 10.4 restriction.
> I sure hope he says yes.
>
> Shame on Apple.

Of course as someone who got to write date code way back when, this is
the kind of fix/patch that sends developers in a place like Apple
running screaming into the night. If you do it perfectly no one notices,
even inside the company. If you make a mistake, you get blasted for not
getting right "something simple like the time of day". Testing is the
killer here. (Anyone remember that West Wing episode where being in one
of 3 counties in Indiana ruined the day for a few folks?)

As to Canada, I've dealt with programming for things "there from here"
also. At times I'd swear they thought I could read minds the way I'd get
asked "didn't you know that...". Keeping up with the legislature in 50
states and a few more odd entities is hard. Keeping up with governments
on other countries on things that don't make the front page is a killer.

On 31 Jan 2007, at 09:45, Alexander Hoffman wrote:

> "Shame on Apple"!?
>
> I think that that is a little much. There is still something like a
> month to fix this, while still giving over a week for people to get
> the update.

My apologies, I should have been more clear. My "Shame on Apple" was
referring more to the fact that Apple has not fixed this problem for
users of 10.3, neither for Canada nor the USA, and seemingly has no
intention to.

In even small collaborative groups, syncing files and messages is
important and it relies upon the system's time being correct. It is
supposed to just work.

However much I dislike Microsoft and however much I may find their
products to be unfriendly, support for older versions of their OS is
one thing that Microsoft does much better than Apple.



Peter

-----
Peter Schoenrank e-mail: cpsuvic.ca
Computing User Services phone: 250-721-7696
University of Victoria fax: 250-721-8778

> Apple has not fixed this problem for users of 10.3, neither for
> Canada nor the USA, and seemingly has no intention to.

You might be able to fix this problem yourself.

I believe Mac OS X uses zoneinfo for tracking timezones and
determining daylight savings time. The compiled versions of these
files are stored in /usr/share/zoneinfo, and the Zoneinfo compiler is
at /usr/sbin/zic.

All you need are the new datafiles that contain the new information,
and they are available from the Zoneinfo homepage <http://
www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm>.

All you would have to do is download the new tzdata2007a.tar.gzip
file, uncompress it, and compile it with the zic compiler. It even
comes with a leapseconds file.

I don't know it will work, but it is certainly worth a try.

=======================================
Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor,
and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it."
-- Elwood P. Dowd
=======================================

David Weintraub
davidweintraubworld.net
davidweintraub.name


On Feb 1, 2007, at 2:36 AM, Peter Schoenrank wrote:

>
> On 31 Jan 2007, at 09:45, Alexander Hoffman wrote:
>
>> "Shame on Apple"!?
>>
>> I think that that is a little much. There is still something like a
>> month to fix this, while still giving over a week for people to get
>> the update.
>
> My apologies, I should have been more clear. My "Shame on Apple" was
> referring more to the fact that Apple has not fixed this problem for
> users of 10.3, neither for Canada nor the USA, and seemingly has no
> intention to.
>
> In even small collaborative groups, syncing files and messages is
> important and it relies upon the system's time being correct. It is
> supposed to just work.
>
> However much I dislike Microsoft and however much I may find their
> products to be unfriendly, support for older versions of their OS is
> one thing that Microsoft does much better than Apple.
>
>
>
> Peter
>
> -----
> Peter Schoenrank e-mail: cpsuvic.ca
> Computing User Services phone: 250-721-7696
> University of Victoria fax: 250-721-8778
>
>
>
> --
> If you want to unsubscribe or change your address, use this link:
>
> http://emperor.tidbits.com/webx?unsub.3c3f6899!u=305447b1
>

On Feb 1, 2007, at 2:36 AM, Peter Schoenrank wrote:

> My apologies, I should have been more clear. My "Shame on Apple" was
> referring more to the fact that Apple has not fixed this problem for
> users of 10.3, neither for Canada nor the USA, and seemingly has no
> intention to.

At a campus user group meeting today, an Apple System Engineer said
they're "doing something about it," referring to Daylight Saving and
10.3. That's not an "official" official statement but I believe it's
going to happen.

A couple of days ago, John Gruber pointed to this page, which gives
command line instructions for replacing the zoneinfo file on a
Panther or Jaguar Mac, *if* you have access to an updated copy from
another Mac running 10.4.6 or later.

<http://www.geekpatrol.ca/2007/01/patching-panther-for-daylight-savings-time/>

The page also mentions, however, that Ian Comfort has written shell
scripts for both Panther and Jaguar that basically carry out the
steps David describes below -- downloading, uncompressing and
compiling the tzdata2007a data file.

<http://www.stanford.edu/~icomfort/panthertz/>

Not having a 10.4.x Mac that I could simply copy the zoneinfo file
from, I successfully ran Ian's Jaguar script on two 10.2.8 Macs this
weekend and confirmed using 'zdump' (as suggested on the Geek Patrol
page) that the correct changes were made.

There doesn't seem to be a web page associated with Ian's scripts,
but there's some documentation in the source of the scripts
themselves.

Albert

>>Apple has not fixed this problem for users of 10.3, neither for
>>Canada nor the USA, and seemingly has no intention to.
>
>You might be able to fix this problem yourself.
>
>I believe Mac OS X uses zoneinfo for tracking timezones and
>determining daylight savings time. The compiled versions of these
>files are stored in /usr/share/zoneinfo, and the Zoneinfo compiler is
>at /usr/sbin/zic.
>
>All you need are the new datafiles that contain the new information,
>and they are available from the Zoneinfo homepage <http://
>www.twinsun.com/tz/tz-link.htm>.
>
>All you would have to do is download the new tzdata2007a.tar.gzip
>file, uncompress it, and compile it with the zic compiler. It even
>comes with a leapseconds file.
>
>I don't know it will work, but it is certainly worth a try.
>
>=======================================
>Well, I've wrestled with reality for 35 years, doctor,
>and I'm happy to state I finally won out over it."
>-- Elwood P. Dowd
>=======================================
>
>David Weintraub
>davidweintraubworld.net
>davidweintraub.name