Internet control for family iMac

On 7-Nov-06, at 8:18 AM, iain043 wrote:

> I post this both to raise awareness of teenage ingenuity (if
> needed!), and to ask if anyone has a workaround or experience of a
> better product which would manage this type of use.

My Linksys router has an option to block internet access completely
during certain hours. It has a few other options, like keywords and
domain names, blocking certain ports etc.. but they would not apply
in this case.

You could set the Mac to log everyone out at 8pm, or maybe shut
itself down?

David (Who has a 3yr old and is not looking forward to figuring this
out as well!!!)

On Nov 7, 2006, at 8:18 AM, iain043 wrote:

> I don't want to bar my son from playing the game completely, so I
> don't want to block the site, or to disable Java or Safari. But
> this seems to be a loophole in Content Barrier, while also being
> EXACTLY the kind of thing parents want to be able to control. I
> imagine there are a number of these multi-user online games which
> run in an environmnet where they don't put out fresh IP calls or
> whatever it is that Content Barrier uses to detect Internet activity.

As a possible work around, set the energy management panel to shut
down the computer at 8pm. Then, even if he restarts it, the browser
will not be open.

iain043 said:

>I don't want to bar my son from playing the game completely, so I don't
>want to block the site, or to disable Java or Safari. But this seems to be
>a loophole in Content Barrier, while also being EXACTLY the kind of thing
>parents want to be able to control. I imagine there are a number of these
>multi-user online games which run in an environmnet where they don't put
>out fresh IP calls or whatever it is that Content Barrier uses to detect
>Internet activity.


We use a more direct approach. But first let me say that I fully
understand that it is hard to be watching every child every minute and
that such solutions make it a lot easier to be sure that our children are
following our wishes for their behavior. Some folks will just callously
tell you to watch what your children are doing and turn off the computer.
 That isn't so easy when you have multiple children, you have to cook
meals and get other things done, and you have to work all day too.

A device like this PowerCop will make sure that your child is only using
the computer for the set amount of time. It is very hard to defeat,
since the power cord is locked in the device. You can get one for only
$20.

http://www.familysafemedia.com/power_cop_tv_time_manager_pare.html
http://www.smarthome.com/46900.html



Randy B. Singer

Co-Author of:
The Macintosh Bible (4th, 5th and 6th editions)

OS X Routine Maintenance
http://www.macattorney.com/ts.html

>>I post this both to raise awareness of teenage ingenuity (if
>>needed!), and to ask if anyone has a workaround or experience of a
>>better product which would manage this type of use.

Heh... the key to teenage ingenuity is... play with him, tell him
this game is REALLY cool. Anything a parent says is 'cool' will
become instantly uncool! ;)


>A workaround - and I offer this with all sincerity and no sarcasm
>intended: Tell your son to shut the Mac down when his time is up.
>This is what I did with my kids. I made them responsible for
>following the rules we had jointly agreed upon. As they grow up, they
>are going to have to take responsibility for their own behaviour and
>actions. Why not start now?

And seriously, I agree with Peter here. Computer use is something
that in reality has very limited ACTUAL danger (compared with other
areas of self-discipline, such as sex, drugs, and rock&roll), so why
not let them take that level of responsibility? It has worked out
well here so far with two teenage boys in my hosuehold.


--chuck


--
__________________________________________________________________
"Don't ever forget that what separates you from selling deep-fried
potatoes is a snappy uniform."

                        --Chris Kilbourn, c.1997

It sounds as though ContentBarrier simply prevents new pages from loading
after the designated time. So you'll need to force him to reload the page.

I can think of a couple ways to do it, but none are quite as simple as a
cron or launchd task that quits the browser with the following command:

killall Safari

(Modify as needed for other browsers.)

Set this up to run at 8 PM every night, and whomever is using the computer
will be forced to load new pages.

If you want to be nicer, you could use a program like Proxi or even iCal to
run an AppleScript to accomplish the same thing and have it prompt with a
warning so that he can save his game before exiting.

--Nik

On 11/7/06 15:53, "Randy B. Singer" <randymacattorney.com> wrote:

>> I don't want to bar my son from playing the game completely, so I don't
>> want to block the site, or to disable Java or Safari. But this seems to be
>> a loophole in Content Barrier, while also being EXACTLY the kind of thing
>> parents want to be able to control. I imagine there are a number of these
>> multi-user online games which run in an environmnet where they don't put
>> out fresh IP calls or whatever it is that Content Barrier uses to detect
>> Internet activity.
>
>
> We use a more direct approach. But first let me say that I fully
> understand that it is hard to be watching every child every minute and
> that such solutions make it a lot easier to be sure that our children are
> following our wishes for their behavior. Some folks will just callously
> tell you to watch what your children are doing and turn off the computer.
> That isn't so easy when you have multiple children, you have to cook
> meals and get other things done, and you have to work all day too.

Spend the money on the ten client license of Apple Remote Desktop. When they
break the rules, you kill their logins. A couple nights watching their
siblings use the computer when they can't will adjust that attitude, as will
Apple Remote Desktop's application usage and "who did what" reports.

I also find that randomly force-restarting things from afar, without warning
or reason adds in that lovely "random pimp-hand of god" effect that keeps
them guessing as to when you're monitoring them.

On the NON-draconian side, Apple Remote Desktop is really helpful for
assisting them with different things when you can't run all over the house.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

On 07 Nov 2006, at 06:18 , iain043 wrote:
> I post this both to raise awareness of teenage ingenuity (if
> needed!), and to ask if anyone has a workaround or experience of a
> better product which would manage this type of use.

Well, you could write an applescript that closes any open Safari
window, then launch it with LaunchServices at 2 minutes after 8pm.

Or lots of other options along those lines.

(I suggest closing the windows instead of quitting the app as that is
likely to be less destructive).

I, too, would suggest that automated solutions to issues of personal
responsibility are not the best way to teach teenagers. I have two
myself, and IMHO, now is the time to be teaching him/them the
invaluable benefits of self-control. This, of course, extends to
agreements with people to behave by a certain set of rules. If you
have rules, but they're automatically enforced, you remove the
teenager's ability to learn by having to *choose* to stop doing
something at the agreed-upon time. In effect, you're training them to
expect an outside force to make their decisions for them!

I believe we techies can oftentimes go too far in looking for tech-
fixes to human-relations-based problems. I hear people complain about
young people today having a lack of awareness about responsibility,
and I think this is a good example of how and why this might be
happening.

Another problem with the automated approach is that it takes away the
need for *you* to be responsible for keeping tabs on whether or not
they're holding up their end of any given agreement. Again IMHO, the
teenage years are the time when the amount of time you spend
interacting with your kids is directly proportional to how well your
relationship with them progresses.

No matter what avenue you choose, good luck!
John

On Tuesday, November 07, 2006, at 10:12AM, "iain043" <iainmaplescombe.com> wrote:
>I don't want to bar my son from playing the game completely, so I
>don't want to block the site, or to disable Java or Safari. But
>this seems to be a loophole in Content Barrier, while also being
>EXACTLY the kind of thing parents want to be able to control. I
>imagine there are a number of these multi-user online games which
>run in an environmnet where they don't put out fresh IP calls or
>whatever it is that Content Barrier uses to detect Internet
>activity.
>
>I post this both to raise awareness of teenage ingenuity (if
>needed!), and to ask if anyone has a workaround or experience of a
>better product which would manage this type of use.

Firewalls that can block access from particular computers at particular times, which might work (ContentBarrier is on the kids' iMac, right?--the firewalls I mean are appliances or at least on another machine).

I know *I* have a hard time quitting games at the proper time, if the issue is not your son cheating--that he knows that this is how he can get around the rule but rather that he's having trouble tearing himself away at just this moment, then maybe an alarm clock approach would help. I use Minateur to help me focus in this way.

I've had other Mac-savvy parents tell me that they use ARD as well. Nothing keeps the youth in line quite like the notion that Mom or Dad might be looking over their virtual shoulders without them knowing.

Good luck! I'd like to hear about how you eventually solve this...

On Nov 10, 2006, at 12:12 PM, Lorin Rivers wrote:

> Firewalls that can block access from particular computers at
> particular times, which might work (ContentBarrier is on the kids'
> iMac, right?--the firewalls I mean are appliances or at least on
> another machine).
>
> I know *I* have a hard time quitting games at the proper time, if
> the issue is not your son cheating--that he knows that this is how
> he can get around the rule but rather that he's having trouble
> tearing himself away at just this moment, then maybe an alarm clock
> approach would help. I use Minateur to help me focus in this way.

A combination approach might be interesting--an alarm a few minutes
before the cutoff time and the router cutting off sometime after
cutoff time.

   --John (at 67, never had kids, so what do I know?)

On Nov 8, 2006, at 12:20 PM, chuck goolsbee wrote:

> And seriously, I agree with Peter here. Computer use is something
> that in reality has very limited ACTUAL danger (compared with other
> areas of self-discipline, such as sex, drugs, and rock&roll), so why
> not let them take that level of responsibility? It has worked out
> well here so far with two teenage boys in my hosuehold.

Twice recently I've had frantic, very-non-tech-savvy mothers asking
for help to set up internet access controls for their teenaged sons.

In both cases, they were "spending way too much time not doing their
homework". I'm pretty sure in both cases that "not doing homework"
was meant as a euphemism for "was caught looking for porn". In one of
the cases I had no doubt, because she had me open up the browser
history and verify that he'd been going to gay web sites.

Needless to day, I *really* wasn't comfortable with this. For one
thing, as most of the people in this thread seem to agree, it should
be the parents' job to supervise what their kids are doing. These
kids obviously understand much better than the parents do how to use
computers, and can probably get around any access control put on
their personal laptop -- e.g. figure out mom's simple password, or
just use another computer.

And with the kid that was looking up the gay sites... the parents
there are just going to have to find a way to deal with the
possibility that their son might very well be gay, and messing around
with filters on the computer is just putting off the inevitable
discussion about it, and (hopefully) acceptance of it. I didn't feel
like it was my place to point that out to her, but surely she's going
to have to realize that sooner or later.

Obviously a lot of parents find these tools necessary, but what
problem are they solving? Isn't it possible that they create other
problems? I'm curious what parents really think they're a good idea,
and why.

I've got an infant son, and I suppose when he's old enough to start
taking an interest in computers (and, eventually, sex), I'll have to
pay attention to hod he's using computers and I'll likely turn to
tools to help me do that, at least to an extent. But certainly that
can't be a substitute for being an attentive parent, right?


--
Chris Devers

On 11/13/06 19:48, "Chris Devers" <cdeverspobox.com> wrote:

> I've got an infant son, and I suppose when he's old enough to start
> taking an interest in computers (and, eventually, sex), I'll have to
> pay attention to hod he's using computers and I'll likely turn to
> tools to help me do that, at least to an extent. But certainly that
> can't be a substitute for being an attentive parent, right?

I've a teenager, (well, a new one, just 13), and while I'm not terribly
average in terms of computing knowledge, I find that in the end, letting him
decide, by his actions, how much rope he gets saves me a ton of work.

Punishing specific transgressions has worked far better than trying to
manage the intarweb, and it's actually meant that he's less likely to fiddle
about because:

a) He KNOWS he ain't hidin' squat
b) I have the power and the knowledge to make his computing experience be
nothing but bad "Barney" animations
c) I'd really rather not have to monitor him every second. It's tedious for
me and insulting for him.

He knows the rule: As ye behave, so shall ye be allowed to behave. Or, more
plainly, you act with responsibility, you get privilege. You don't, you
don't.

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

There is a share ware program, I forget the name, that controls the log in times of various non-administrator users from an administrative account. In other words, an administrator can allow a user to log in for a certain number of hours per day, different number of hours each day of the week if you want, or it can set specific times each day, again different for each day if you want, that the user can log in. If the user is already logged in, a administrator defined warning is displayed and the user is then logged out. The same restrictions can be applied to specific programs (say Safari) as well. However, I’m in full agreement that it would be better to work with the teen to develop habits of honesty, and self control. A tech solution could, however, be helpful in cases of real and serious addiction.

On 13 Nov 2006, at 18:48 , Chris Devers wrote:
> Obviously a lot of parents find these tools necessary, but what
> problem are they solving? Isn't it possible that they create other
> problems? I'm curious what parents really think they're a good idea,
> and why.

I think the problem they 'solve' is lack of knowledge on the parent's
part and lack of time (or willingness) to supervise their kids.

I have parental controls on my kids' accounts for email and ichat to
prevent them receiving spam, or getting any email from someone I
don't know.

Other than that, they are free to do what they want. I have the
profanity filter on WoW enabled for my eldest son, fat lot of good
that does, but really, that's it. It's a big world out there and
trying to hide it because the kids are 'too young' just seems like a
recipe for disaster to me.

Oh, and the computer is in the family room, with the TV. Kids don't
get (and will not likely ever get) their 'own' computer or tv or
whatever in their own private space until they are a lot older
(computers, not TV. That's one hill I'll die on :).

As for the teenagers... well, I was a teenagers once, and I knew a
lot of other teenagers, and I have to say, I never once met a
teenager, male or female, that didn't look at porn. At least once. I
never saw anyone's head explode because of it, either.

Locking down the computer isn't going to make a damn bit of difference.

Besides, what we used to consider racy near-porn when i was a
teenager is now the lead-in for CSI.

Oh my, did I just say that? I am so OLD.

On 11/14/06 14:37, "Google Kreme" <gkremegmail.com> wrote:

> As for the teenagers... well, I was a teenagers once, and I knew a
> lot of other teenagers, and I have to say, I never once met a
> teenager, male or female, that didn't look at porn. At least once. I
> never saw anyone's head explode because of it, either.

Not that I'm recommending this, especially in this humorless "must treat
kids like they're stupid" age, but my dad fixed the "teenaged son sneaking
porn in the house" rather handily...a subscription to playboy. True, as
Google said, that's not much worse than the lead in for CSI THESE days, but
about six months later...

"What'cha reading?"

"New issue of playboy. They have an interview with patty hearst, she's
finally talking about the SLA and getting kidnapped and all"

"Who's the centerfold, is she cute?"

"How should I know, I haven't gotten to that ye.....I hate you"

gales of laughter followed. But it worked real well, and kept the stuff they
really didn't want in the house out of the house. Note that it didn't keep
ME from it, and this was when getting porn was actually hard. You had to get
actual paper. My dad knew he couldn't keep me away from it, but the playboy
sub was a nice compromise, and he knew that once it wasn't "ooooh, sneakin'
it in" that eventually it wouldn't be nearly as cool. Amazing what parental
consent can do to make something go from cool to suck. (It was really bad
when my mom's sister would visit, she used to WORK for playboy..."oh bill's
still there, he's a nice guy." Oy...nothing to make something suck than your
parents and your aunt thinking it's cool.)

The point here is that just banning things outright makes them far more
interesting than they really are, and the 'prize' much more worthwhile.
That's not to say you never ban anything, but that perhaps picking your
battles carefully, and treating your kid like an individual, and not page 93
in "The latest way to raise your kids properly" is going to save you a ton
of trouble.

The truth is, short of no wireless or Bluetooth, and an air gap on the
ethernet, if a kid wants to get to a site you've banned, they'll eventually
figure out a way. Hell, you can't even barely keep people who are truly
computer illiterate off the porn with million dollar products and dire
threats. You think a shareware product is going to work against the hordes
of "Woz v.2" out there?

--
John C. Welch Writer/Analyst
Bynkii.com Mac and other opinions
jwelchbynkii.com

It seems that the responses on this thread can largely divided into
two groups---the technical solutions and relationship ("parenting")
solutions. The problem of course, is that both are partial
solutions. As many have noted technical solutions are imperfect,
draconian and relatively easy to overcome. Equal number have argued
that personal monitoring (especially in multiple-kid households) are
often impractical, and that even the best kids often have a lapse in
judgement (because they are kids).

It seems that some combination of the two would be useful.

A slight digression: Last year, the NY Times ran an extensive
investigative article on child porn on the internet. Subsequently,
the lead reporter on the piece was interviewed on the radio, and one
of the questions he was naturally asked was, how did he monitor the
use of the internet by his children given the dangers he had
uncovered. His response was one of the most sensible responses I've
heard on the topic.

He said that sometimes, the parent just has to assert his/her
decision on some issues (with explanation but no negotiation). For
him, that was the banning of webcams from his kid's computers. But
this should be reserved for the most important issues.

The rest was "trust but verify". Basically, he made clear his
expectations about internet usage to his kids (they were not to view
adult content alone, and they were not to receive IMs from people
that the parents did not know, etc.), and then trusted them to follow
these rules on their own. But occasionally he would sit down with
his kids and go through the browser history, as well as the sender
history (not the message contents) of IM programs. Any deletion or
editing of the browser history or message logs would result in an
automatic revocation of internet privileges. This freed him from
constantly monitoring the kids all the time, but also made it
possible for him to periodically have check points which created
opportunities for discussions about internet usage with his kids,
while making sure that they were not getting into any trouble.

Something like this might work for the problem the original poster
was asking about: For the "verify" part, use a program like Log
Application Usage to monitor when a particular application was
launched and closed. This will tell the you if in fact Safari was
actually closed at 8pm. Check the log file at whatever interval you
deem appropriate, and if you find that he was routinely playing the
game beyond 8pm, you can then use that as an opportunity for
"parenting".

Tomoharu

If anyone knows where I can find an easy way to send the output of my linksys router logs to a user-friendly interface, pls let me know! Once the kid learned to erase the history it was all over with.

I have a son on the autistic spectrum who has absolutely no impulse control (ADHD is a comorbid condition). His high school *requires* him to download assignments from the school server and to do internet research. His computer is in an area I can see, but that did not stop his abusing his web surfing privileges. He also managed to inadvertently download pornography disguised as trailers for his favorite TV shows onto our computer even though I'd set my linksys router to block keywords associated with the TV shows. The only things that have worked are: 1) blocking the internet from his computer altogether during certain times of the day with the linksys router. He has to do school computing during a very limited time frame or get my permission to use an unblocked computer; 2) physically removing the cable modem from the house while I am gone. All of these things are a big pain and require constant parental vigilance. As soon as the video baby monitors become more reliable, I'm going to get one and point it at the computer.

P.S. As the parent of two teens, I can tell you you're deluding yourself if you think they're not trying something behind your back. An in-law thinks that she's severely-limited her kids' computer use. My teens tell me that she's unaware her kids have figured out how to secretely violate rules. We also tried the "kid should be responsible for own behavior" technique on the older kid. He worked just enough to keep his grades at the minimum acceptable level and played on-line computer games the rest of the time. If internet access hadn't been a school requirement, I'd have canceled our internet account. You may have to settle for doing the best you can do in a general sort of way and waiting for them to have their own teens before you get your revenge.

hello I'm an 11 year old boy and just so you know parental controls don't work on older kids like me ok you just recently found out about runescape please you guys can't block runescape or more likely he knows how to unlock parental controls GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEAD YOU OVERPROTECTIVE PARENTS PARENTAL CONTROLS ONLY WORK ON LITTLE KIDS SHEESH.

I don't want to interfere with the whole discussion about parental control but come back to the original problem: how to shut down RunEscape at a certain time.

I suffered the same problem: Blocking the web address did only prevent my children to enter the site after 20:00. Once started this game they were not limited to continue playing.

I just found out that port-blocking in the router must be the solution. In this case TCP port 43594 and 43595. In my Linksys-router I was able to adjust a combinations of time interval, blocked ports and local IP addresses. Exactly what I needed, and what the original poster asked for.